Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast. We're marriage and family. We're never meant to be. A game of chance playing an Adrienne.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:05]:
Here we are. Ho, ho, ho.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:07]:
It is a little Christmas season. Can you feel it?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:09]:
I can.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:09]:
Oh, we're ready. Can you taste it?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:11]:
With this Starbucks coffee season, our Christmas.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:13]:
Trees are up and everything.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:14]:
How about that?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:15]:
We love Christmas, Kevin.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:17]:
Do you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:17]:
Kevin? Kevin McAllister. Oh, have you seen Home Alone?
Kevin Thompson [00:00:21]:
Yes, I've seen Home Alone.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:22]:
Well, we aren't sure now what you're.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:24]:
What was it the last time I had a vacation? Oh, that little thing. Yes, that little thing. That's exactly right. Hey, that actually could cause a fight between me and Jenny because she loves that movie so much.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:33]:
Home Alone. She loves.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:34]:
And I'm like, I'm out.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:35]:
Do.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:35]:
Does she watch Home Alone Christmas Vacation?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:37]:
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But do you watch Home Alone every year like us? No, no, no, no. We go backwards. We start with the new ones, which aren't as good, and then we go back to the classics. Closer that we get to Christmas.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:48]:
Wow, those traditions.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:49]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:49]:
No, I don't. I don't like to watch movies I've seen before.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:52]:
You don't like traditions. We get it.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:55]:
All right, so what's our fight today? Got one.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:57]:
We do have one. Should I just read it and get going for it?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:00]:
Welcome back to Fight Club.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:01]:
So, hey, Fight Club. I just found out that my husband sent over $2,000 on Christmas without telling me. Oh, we talked. We talked about saving or. Sorry. Oh, my gosh. Guys, should we. No, no, I'm good.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:14]:
I'm going to.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:14]:
Hang on there. We talked about staying under $800, but they spent 2,000. But he said the kids deserved a big year. Sounds like me. And went overboard. I'm livid. I handle the bills, and now I'm scrambling to cover January. He says I'm making too big of a deal of it, that he just wanted to create magic.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:33]:
I feel lied to and dismissed. We've had money fights before, but this one really hurt. Are we just wired differently, or is there something deeper, Mrs. Budget Burnout?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:44]:
Wow. He wanted to create magic, and he created mayhem. And now here we are. Welcome to Flight for All.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:50]:
Don't We Know it.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:51]:
So would this be. Would this be a debate y' all would have?
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:53]:
Or my. Well, so the debate or the habits we have for Christmas presents would be.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:00]:
Well, I buy them.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:01]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:01]:
And then on December 20th, she buys.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:03]:
Them around November 15th.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:05]:
No, no, no. I'm just like. You know, I think about it a little bit more. I'm not super early. I'm not an early shopper, but I'm thinking about it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:12]:
Yeah, that's good.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:13]:
December 23rd, he comes home with, like, 10 new gifts. He's like, oh, I was just at the store, and I bought way more things that our kids don't eat.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:20]:
Oh, yeah. Because I'm not sure what's in the boxes, Kevin and I, and. And I want to be a part of it.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:26]:
I think that's one of the great things about Christmas Day is, is finding out what I bought the kids.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:30]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:30]:
There's the excitement. I'm excited. I can't wait.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:33]:
And I just. I remember as a kid, I wanted all the wonderful things, and I want my kids to have those moments that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:39]:
You should get all the wonderful things as a kid. Oh, you want to spoil your children rotten?
Kevin Thompson [00:02:45]:
I'm going to have to ask you to type that into our form. That way we can cover that fight at another time.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:51]:
Anyway, merry Christmas.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:52]:
So let's break this down a little bit.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:53]:
Our fighter. This one.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:54]:
Yeah, this one. So, I mean, there are some things, some interesting things. So the 2000 on Christmas, nothing. For some people that are listening, they spent far more than that. And it's not a big deal, right?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:05]:
It's not about the number, really, at all.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:06]:
It's not about the number. The. Without telling me yellow that begins to scream some things that are going on. And then once you find out that we've actually discussed, we agreed on 800, now you see where the problem is? We had an agreement, now it's good, goes different. He says the kids deserve a Big Year. I'm intrigued by that phrase. We want to get to that to some extent. I wonder, do the kids deserve a Big Year or guilt? Guilt.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:35]:
Is he trying to purchase something in some way?
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:38]:
Happiness and love.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:39]:
Happiness. Love this idea of, oh, look how great of a parent I am, or we are something of that nature. That statement is very interesting to me. That, and then the idea that she handles the bills. Nothing wrong with that. Does make me wonder, though, if money is an issue, what would it look like? We're already getting into solutions. I shouldn't get here this quickly. What would it look like if he handled it for a while? Let him feel the stress of what is actually going on.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:05]:
And then the idea of he's saying, you're making too big of a deal of it. She now there's all this friction that's taking place and we can see some very difficult issues. She's asking Are we just wired differently? And the answer is yes and no. Yes, you are wired differently, but that is not the problem here. The problem here is that you probably don't understand it and you're not processing it in a right way. So do either. Y' all hear personality things.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:31]:
Oh, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:32]:
We're going to start now introducing y' all to where y' all are going to start picking out some personality things that are going on. So think about head, heart, gut, inward, outward, dyadic. Those are the things that are taking place here. We. What is it you're seeing here? Anything.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:46]:
Well, she's definitely more. I wanted to say, like, type A, but I don't know how that fits into.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:54]:
Yeah. So type A. Yes. You can almost hear as though she is the oldest daughter. She's me, right? Yes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:02]:
Except I don't take care of the finances. But I expect you to do a good job at that.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:07]:
Yeah. So you probably have. Now, she sounds to me like she's gonna be gut driven inward. Very Jenny. Like, from my standpoint, like agency.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:17]:
Yeah. Like an enneagram one. All the ducks in the row. Everything's taken care of, probably even to some extent. This idea of you kind of need to earn your fun, so we need to make sure that we have everything right, and then we'll have fun. And then. He sounds a lot like a certainty outward. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:37]:
Enneagram7. This. Oh, let's just go have fun. Whatever. We'll worry about everything else later. But it's all about the experience. Yes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:45]:
Make the magic, make the memories.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:47]:
So you see how they fall in love with each other now is he needs structure in his life, because if all he ever does is have fun, he's not going to be able to afford it. You'll end up in prison, and that won't be fun. And so he's attracted to her about how diligent she is, how great she is. She needs to let loose a little bit at times because if it's always I got to earn it to. To. To get it, she's probably never gonna get there. So now she's attracted to him. And now a few years in, they're frustrating each other.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:13]:
Crazy, right?
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:14]:
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting for me, I would say that the kids deserve a Big Year. And what I mean by that, Kevin, is let's just let some steam off. We worked hard. It's. Why are we so strung up and, like, have a little faith that so.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:29]:
Should every year be a Big Year?
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:30]:
Well, because maybe define a Big Year. Right. So it's like for me, I'm learning over time that a Big year doesn't mean $2,000. Like it. It actually means quality time.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:42]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:42]:
You know, so it's like I'm trying to analyze this guy of like, what is he covering up for? I'm assuming in my thoughts, it's like, he's worked hard. So finally he's like, I'm going to let some steam off, and I want everyone to enjoy all this time and relaxation. And she's been caused stress now in the moments that it should be pure joy. So.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:05]:
And it would be fascinating if so that that phrase. I have no problem with that statement. The kids deserve a Big Year. Okay, great. I have no problem with that. But. But notice the association here with money and fun. The assumption is, in order for this to be a really enjoyable Christmas, we need to buy them things.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:25]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:25]:
Well, okay. Obviously, toys are a aspect of what we are, and we don't have the ages here of the kids. However, the danger here is we're now training our kids to get on a treadmill that we shouldn't get on as well. And that is a materialistic kind of treadmill, which is this idea of, oh, if we buy that, we're going to be happy.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:42]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:42]:
Well, for how long? For how long are we going to be happy? And what would it look like instead if they begin to say, all right, man, the kids deserve a Big Year, what will that look like? That's what could be the most fun.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:53]:
Yeah. That's my self realization as I'm analyzing myself.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:56]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:57]:
Of I used to want to buy the joy. And it's like, I always wanted the toys. And then we have all the toys and they're in the garage and they're in bins, and we never play with the toys. And the kids want more toys.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:09]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:09]:
And Adrienne's been very good at, like, you go to Target all the time and you always buy something. And we had.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:15]:
Especially when I'm not around. That's what he does.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:17]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:17]:
Not. Not like to. But it's like, it's relevant because Halloween wasn't long ago and the kids got candy. They love candy. And we're like, trying to teach them not to eat all the candy. So we decided that we would buy their candy off them for 10 cents and then a piece.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:35]:
Wow. A lot.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:36]:
The whole lot. Take a dime and treat yourself suddenly.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:40]:
Or North Korea over there.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:44]:
New feld. Awkward.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:47]:
And so they sell me this candy. And so my mind is, we'll go and Buy a toy for. With that money. Right. And then it was fun because Christmas is coming around the corner. D. And they all wanted to buy something that would last because they're too tired of toys. How crazy is that? I'm learning from my own kids.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:05]:
And so then they go and buy some Christmas lights and things that they cash. Our oldest is, like, wanting to be efficient with his money, so he wants to buy something that he'll use year after year. And I'm like, I have a very proud moment.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:17]:
Oh, that's cool.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:18]:
Because he's a firstborn like me.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:19]:
Yeah. And I see the qualities in her. Oh, no.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:22]:
No doubt. Now, there is another personality possibility that's here, and that is the wife could be very certainty kind of centric. Right. So. So more like. More like my personality of I want predictability.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:34]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:35]:
And now you've robbed me of that predictability because how. How are we going to afford these kind of things? And he could have a very outward bonding, kind of almost an enneagram 2 kind of concept of. He just sees, man, the need of the kids. The kids need a good month, and here's how we're gonna do it. Not recognizing the ramifications of what that could actually steal from her. But I still like our initial kind of concept here of she's agency. Now he's much more kind of this fun aspect of what's going on, and this is causing some chaos.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:08]:
And the other thing is, because they've had money fights before, it could be like a trigger Y. Her from past her even. Not even from him, but, like, as a child or something, there was, like, unpredictability or financial struggle. She doesn't want to go down that road again. But you are bringing me back.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:24]:
Yeah, no, that's a. That's a great question. And that's something that we would want to. Want to dig in with them to begin to see now. All right, so here's what we do. Whenever we look at fights, we look at personality. We look at attachment. Money doesn't really reveal attachment to us.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:37]:
Different attachment styles deal with money in different ways. Communication does. Communication reveals.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:43]:
We like that.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:43]:
So y' all both communicated very well. So the idea now of even this. You're overreacting. That. Notice what he's. What he's doing there is. He does not want any part of this conversation is what it sounds like to me. So this is going to be an avoidant kind of approach, which now is probably tipping her into a much more anxious approach.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:02]:
So. So she's probably Wanting to grab more control. Yeah, this hasn't gone well, so I'm gonna need to control even more. And he doesn't want any part of the tension, so he's probably running and she's chasing. She's chasing. And so this idea of we've had money fights before, Adrienne, this is brilliant for you to figure that out right there, because you're tapping into this is in all likelihood their fight club. Yes. So, I mean, this is one thing we're helping couples with, is to recognize, look, we don't have many fights, and chances are most couples are probably having one or two fights just over and over again.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:35]:
And if we could learn to break those down, then we could lessen their impact on us. And so it sounds like to them, this is a very significant issue.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:44]:
Yeah. And I mean, let's just call a spade a spade. We talked about staying under 800, and he didn't. Like, there is an element of distrust. Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:53]:
So it's like betrayal, almost, especially if it's a pattern.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:56]:
But now I'm gonna, like, just to be the other side of it. Yeah, we agree. Let's do 800. But in the moment, I feel like I gotta go for it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to defend him a little bit.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:06]:
I know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:07]:
It's like, we're gonna stay under. Well, don't be so tight. Strong. Right. Like, I can hear the fight right now because it's.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:13]:
But then they should have negotiated a different number in the beginning.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:15]:
Or.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:16]:
Or we talked about staying under. Did we decide, like, this year, this is the number?
Kevin Thompson [00:12:22]:
So. So let's break down of. Of what would empower him to do that? What would empower him in this moment to violate the discussion that they had. And now on his own, to go out and do this. I see two possibilities just from a sheer personality standpoint. One, and we haven't even talked about this. He could be more of an agency dyadic, more of an enneagram9. To where he so doesn't like the tension, that when she said, hey, we gotta be careful about Christmas this year.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:50]:
We can only spend $800. And he, instead of asserting himself and having good assertive communication, became very passive. Okay. And to appease her, said yes. Said yes, but then goes out and protest on the other side. So from an unhealthy standpoint, that could be going on. I think it's far more likely in this moment that what's happening is he has an outward attention to the world, and so he Saw the shiny object. And what he needs to do now is learn, is to recognize.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:17]:
Oh, yeah. How would she view this? How would she see this?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:20]:
Yeah. Like, I don't even think he was being malicious. He was actually thinking about the kids, but he forgot to think about his wife heart. In this moment. Do you think?
Kevin Thompson [00:13:29]:
Yeah. What was he thinking about? This is a great. I love this question. Who is he thinking about here?
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:34]:
Himself?
Kevin Thompson [00:13:34]:
I think maybe I do.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:36]:
Like, I know that I'm thinking about myself, how I want to have.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:40]:
Feel about me.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:41]:
Yes. Yes. Or.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:42]:
Or the Christmas that I wanted or the Christmas that, you know. Yes. I brought a bunch of joy to the house because there's a bunch of gifts. Like, guys, come on. Hold on. A kid opening up a Christmas gift.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:54]:
Oh, it's cool. I mean, it's the greatest. 30 seconds.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:57]:
You can have.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:59]:
Scrooge over here. Scrooge as a child. Are you trying to recreate your childhood? Because did you have awesome Christmas?
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:07]:
I have awesome Christmases. And we. We had all the gifts and we had the big gift. Oh, that was fun. We got a Nintendo once, and then we got a Super Mario 3 and we hid it around the house and we had this big scavenger hunt. It was just like, good at tradition, the greatest memories.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:23]:
Mine wasn't as extravagant. It's not bad.
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:28]:
I'll say this too. It's like not to like. I remember Christmas being the moment when we were all together. There was no work, there was no sports. There was nothing. And it was like, so fun to be together.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:40]:
That's what made it magical.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:41]:
But notice how what he wanted, his actions, are now going to prevent him from experiencing.
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:47]:
Yes, yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:49]:
And actually had he had a good discussion about, hey, here's what we want, and maybe here's a great piece of advice. It's too late for this Christmas, but think about it. For birthdays, for Christmases to come, the discussion does not need to begin with a dollar amount. The discussion needs to begin with what do we desire? What's the picture? What's the outcome? What's the experience that we want to have? Okay, now let's begin because here's what happens whenever we start with a dollar amount. Well, let's face it. $800 could have giving them that experience that he wants. Yeah, but. But you start with a dollar amount, then it becomes all about the money.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:23]:
And you're not actually thinking about the outcome of what you actually desire.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:26]:
Right. So is it all about for her security? It's just.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:30]:
Yeah. And rightly so.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:31]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:32]:
I Mean, how what's January going to look like now?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:34]:
It's ruining Christmas for her.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:36]:
It's ruining Christmas. And then, not only that, but then we got this 1200 extra dollars. Then we don't know what the couple looks like. But it could be in many families. $1,200 now could be a significant problem come January. And is it on credit cards? And then are we gonna be. Is this gonna set us behind for all of next year? Here's what I think is the biggest issue in the midst of all this. Let's think about this from more of a friends, partners, or lovers kind of concept is they fail to be partners here, right? Partnership.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:08]:
Think about this from a business perspective. If you have a business partner and you all agree we're going to spend this amount of money, and then the partner goes and spends something else without ever talking to you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:17]:
Bad business.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:18]:
This business is not working very well. This is a failure partnership. And think about what happens here whenever you fail to be partners. Then in this moment now, this couple becomes a parent child relationship for sure. I mean, isn't this. This is something you would expect from a teenager who doesn't get the full picture of understanding what money's all about? And, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, I did spend too much on the credit card. And now that causes the parent to come in and to try to control in some way. And now this is where their money fights go.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:46]:
She plays the parent, he plays the child. And neither one of them are playing the role they're supposed to play. They're not playing the role of spouse.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:52]:
Because I could quickly say, let's say the guy's like, you know what? I made a mistake. I'll do better. I could see her taking dominance in this and say, show me every purchase you've ever made and, like, really.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:06]:
Choking it out. That's not healthy either, right? Because it's not necessarily about every item, I would imagine. It's more so what?
Kevin Thompson [00:17:13]:
Yeah, well, I mean, let's think about. Just from a money standpoint, let's think about this idea of. And she will need to recognize her control. Where does that come from? Is he violating that safety? And it sounds like he is, and he has to take responsibility for that. But let's get back to just the practical application I made earlier. Here's one way to try to change this. She always handles the money. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:35]:
January, he handles it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:36]:
Mm.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:37]:
Let's see what happens. And her thought probably in that moment is, oh, my goodness, dear Lord, where's this going? We're Going off the rails. Right. But, Blaine, think about this even from a golf perspective, and I recognize that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:47]:
I'm listening.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:48]:
75% of our audience are women. And so some are golfers, but some are not. But think about a guy who has a big slice, right? So he hits this huge left to right. And so his mindset is, I need to aim further left. And what that actually does is it exacerbates the. The slice. As you keep on aiming it further and further left, you're going to keep on slicing it more and more. One of the tips is to get on the driving range and aim dead right.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:14]:
In other words, you do the exact opposite of what comes naturally to you. In an attempt to kind of correct what's going on, this couple probably thinks the last thing we should ever do is let him be in charge of the finances. No, no, no. Let him have a try at it. Let's see what's going to now try to set it up where he can't do too much damage. He needs to feel the weight of why this is an issue, that $1,200 more is an issue. Now, there is an assumption we've made here, and that is that this is an issue.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:44]:
There is a whole other side to this, which is. I mean, I don't know. I doubt it. But there is a small case scenario in which she might be overly frugal.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:54]:
Correct.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:55]:
And actually, $1,200 for this family is not that big of a deal. And the problem was they didn't handle that in the conversation, the initial conversation. I'm not putting this on her by any means, but it could be that he looks at what's going on financially like $1,200.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:10]:
It's not a big deal, babe.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:11]:
That big of a deal. Because I don't know if y'. All. I mean, we've seen this before multiple times. Couples that make extraordinate amount of money can still fight over money.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:20]:
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:22]:
And literally, somebody comes from a very frugal background. They don't recognize the money they have. I've talked to many a financial advisor and ask, what's the toughest part of your job? Assuming the toughest part of their job is getting people to save money. And they go, no, no, no. We don't work with people who don't save money. Our biggest problem is getting people who have saved money to start spend it.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:41]:
They get in the mindset.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:19:43]:
Spend it to grow it.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:44]:
No, no, no. Spend it in that. They've worked their whole lives, and now they're in retirement, they're supporting it, and their whole identity is, I'm a saver, I'm frugal. What are you being frugal for now?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:19:55]:
Right. Can't take away the answer.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:56]:
Security, safety, all these idols. That could happen. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:00]:
But the issue in the end is again, it's an issue of partnership. And, and if they could get back to that idea and notice this, it's going to ripple into every aspect of their lives.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:10]:
That was my question was like, yes, this is, let's say, let's say, for example, it isn't the end of the world that spending this amount of money, whatever, that amount of money for a couple isn't going to like, trap them into debt and, you know, cause this thing. But where else. Now I'm hearing of a husband that sure, babe, let's do 800 bucks, that meant nothing to him. I'm just going to go off and do my own thing because I feel that in the moment I want to do it. I kind of know that I make a lot of money. Therefore, whatever. Where does that ripple out, cause a worse.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:41]:
So she no longer respects him or trusts him.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:43]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:45]:
Well, then that's going to start eating into everything. And so even, I mean, doesn't she have a right now to begin to question that whenever he says, I'm going out with my friends, what is he going out with his friends?
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:55]:
What is doing. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:56]:
Because he's not going to be transparent with me.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:57]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:58]:
And so think about this idea of friendship built on trust, partnership built on respect. The partnership is failing. She's not going to respect him. She doesn't respect him with money. We already know that. You can already sense the fights. She does not respect him as money. He's not being respectful to her.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:12]:
There's something in her he doesn't respect either. Whether it's not. It's the oversight, the understanding what's going on, that now that failure of respect is eroding their trust. So now I can't even trust the conversation we're having. And here's what's about to happen, if it's not already happening, is when trust and respect are gone, vulnerability begins to seep away. And so it's going to impact their intimacy. The intimacy is going to become about him and not about both of them. Because even if she's there physically, she's not going to be there emotionally, and she's not going to again.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:46]:
I mean, it's very difficult for a woman to sleep with a man she does not respect.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:50]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:51]:
It's very difficult. Wow. That got a response.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:54]:
No, I just never thought about that. Because I respect you.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:57]:
There you go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:59]:
I've never felt that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:02]:
Well, we could. We could go to different areas that deep down you might not respect my habits. Yeah, right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:09]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:10]:
Which. Which. And now we're going to go super deep because this is where I'm trying to get as like if the partnership. Because a lot of people I would talk to is like, we're not. We're not business partners. This is my wife. You know, it's just like this is a marriage. Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:22]:
You know, but at the same time, I want them to know when you don't have a partnership, I. E. Respect in certain areas of your life, it's going to erode other areas of your life. Right. So it's like if we talked about this and this is. We're vulnerable. I don't care. Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:38]:
But it's like where you would not respect me or like the way I do things would be my eating habits or physical activity. Right. Because as that I disrespect your desire. Really what's going on here is I'm like, no, I want to do it for me. I'm not a friend, a partner. And then that e doesn't become a lover type of thing. Right. So it's like there's many different areas in our.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:02]:
Just not money.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:03]:
Yes. So. So I. Here's what I think is an important aspect of what's going on. We're all going to have areas where we may not agree with what our spouse is doing in small areas of their lives. Here's what I know beyond a shadow of a doubt. Adrienne respects you immensely. Immensely.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:20]:
And so I think on those issues. Yeah, okay. Does she agree with how you're handling that specific situation? No, but that is such a minor situation in comparison to the totality of what yalls relationship is. This is much more something that this is seeping into other areas, in my opinion. So. So I think you can have disagreement. I'm trying to justify your poor eating habits.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:41]:
No, but.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:42]:
But obviously I'm the right guy.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:45]:
No, no, no. It's my own self realization because we are great friends. So therefore we can have great conversations. We're learning really well how to become partners. So I want to respect.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:55]:
Well, I think maybe I don't agree with certain lifestyle choices the same way you wouldn't. Like why do you need to shop? Da da da. Like we have that on both ends, but we do. I think disagreeing and respect are not equal.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:08]:
Very good.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:08]:
We still respect each other, even though maybe we would do things differently.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:12]:
Yes. And we want to love each other to a better place. So it's like, I just don't want people to miss the value of partnership in marriage because it actually strengthens everyone far more than they realize. Everyone likes to be friends. Yeah. We should be friends with our spouse. No problem. We should all be lovers.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:30]:
No problem. I think the missing piece for a lot of people is, like, this partnership element.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:34]:
No, I mean, for me, it was the. Whenever you think about friend, partner and lover. Right. It's been 10 years since I wrote the book. It sounds like, oh, man, every relationship begins as a good friendship. I mean, that's what. Oh, obviously we want intimacy to be strong. Partnership sounds like these, you know, monarchs of old are doing this land transaction.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:52]:
But actually, partnership, to me is the most exciting element. Because think about partnership. Once you move beyond how are we paying bills and taking care of the kids and managing the house, partnership then becomes, how can I help you? Your dreams come true. How can we create the life that we want to create? And then now, together, we're going to go after that? And there is such an invigorating aspect of this. I think for many people, the reason their intimacy struggles, the reason their friendship isn't where it needs to be, is they've never reached that level of partnership beyond how are we paying the bills? And into who are we going to be 10 years from now? And now let's go after that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:28]:
Yes. We inspire each other to get to that point, without a doubt. And, like, back to the fight. Having him just disregard that, it's like, I think there's room for both of them to grow. And I think that there's. Maybe she needs to have more fun. But let's communicate how we can both have more fun.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:44]:
Like, make it a partnership. Like, let's figure this out together.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:48]:
Out of our partnership, which is a healthy partnership, you've pulled out the best in me and vice versa.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:54]:
I heard someone else say vice versa the other day. I was disappointed.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:58]:
Is it a Canadian thing?
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:59]:
I don't know.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:59]:
No, they weren't Canadian.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:01]:
But it draws out the best in you. Right. When you humble yourself in the partnership.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:07]:
To help each other win such potential. That's there. And again, the big issue here is, so they rightly had a conversation, but then they didn't follow through. I mean, that's where the issue really comes back to. In the end, had they been able to do that and now think about what's happening is he then came in. We'll switch metaphors, switch books, and to stay in your lane. He came in and what actually belonged to the two of them, Our ability to manage our finances from the 40,000 foot level and say, here's how we're going to spend money on Christmas. And he robbed her of her voice in that and just did it.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:46]:
And so now he swerved into a lane that he should not be on his own. I think about. There are certain things in married life that are like the carpool lane that, you know, we're in California, right? You have a little diamond that if you don't have more than one person in your car, you can't get in that lane. There are certain decisions I cannot make without Jenny. This is the carpool lane decisions. We have to be unified on this. And he basically got in the carpool lane by himself, made a decision, and now illegal. Now.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:15]:
Now he's experiencing the $1,200 fine. He's getting a ticket.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:19]:
So let's say he was like, oh, shoot, we said 800, but I really found this thing. I want to get the kids, Calls her up and is like. Like, what if he, like, discussed it with her?
Kevin Thompson [00:27:28]:
Yeah, that's. That's. That's much better. And this idea of, look, hey, honey, I know we said this. This is accurate.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:34]:
I respect you.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:35]:
Most of. Yeah. Most of the time, these things aren't. You have to do it immediately. Most of the time. There is a window here, right? I mean, when this was sent in, there's still weeks before Christmas. So maybe this is an old story, maybe not. But part of that.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:50]:
Financial decisions, oftentimes poor financial decisions are rushed. This decision sounds rushed. Unless there's circumstances we aren't aware of. He probably could have spent this money at a later time. So come home and say, hey, honey, we said 800. Can we go back and look again and see could we find this money? I would love to get this for the kids. Now. Notice what's happening here.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:09]:
He's inviting her voice. What he's saying is, hey, let's get in the carpool lane together.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:28:14]:
Yeah, let's partner on this.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:15]:
No, that's exactly right. And now think about it. Had he done that, she would feel valued and seen and appreciated and, oh, my goodness, he's taking responsibility for our finances, and suddenly the respect is gone. I can now trust him. Why can I trust him?
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:31]:
Exactly.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:32]:
I can trust him now because he's going to come to me whenever there is a disagreement and not hide in Some way. Now trust is growing. Now respect is growing. Now vulnerability can grow. There's such potential here, and I never want to become doomed today about this and going, oh, look at this horrible couple. It's not that this is life.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:49]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:50]:
But notice how easily it could have been avoided. And what feels like, I would assume for this couple, what feels like this, this ongoing tug of war, that we're caught in this loop. How do we get out of it? It's actually not that hard.
Blaine Neufeld [00:29:05]:
Yeah. I can also see her leaning the other way in January and being, let's say, extra tight and being bitter towards. Bitter to him and resentment and anger. And January turns into February, and now we're in June and summer vacation.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:25]:
The whole year is angry and.
Blaine Neufeld [00:29:26]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:27]:
Tough.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:28]:
Well, absolutely. And I mean, think about this. As they get into September and October, her tension is going to be growing. Is he going to do it again this year? Let's get some very practical money applications here of what this couple can do in the future. One, there has to be an agreement of full financial transparency. This is. I hate to use this phrase, but I think it plays out. This is, in part, financial adultery.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:57]:
He cheated on her.
Blaine Neufeld [00:29:58]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:58]:
With money. All right, we can't do that. There's no. Here's the thing. Even whenever it comes to Christmas. Right. Years ago, I heard somebody say, we have surprises. We don't have secrets.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:09]:
So, all right. Do we have to reveal everything like that? No. We're gonna keep this hidden from the kids, but with each other. We're telling each other what's going on. There has to be financial transparency, because, again, that will build the trust that's lacking here. They have to have shared decisions. They have to remember the carpool lane and ask the question, am I allowed to make this decision on my own? And some things you can, some things you can't. You have to work through that, talk through that.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:33]:
They have to do that. They need to come back and have a serious repair conversation because she's not going to trust or respect him until they begin to work this out in a meaningful way. And then he has to rebuild her trust. And how do you rebuild trust? Small steps every single day. This isn't something you can just go, oh, wash my hands. All right, from this moment on, we're good. Now, this has consequences. And the only way to re.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:58]:
Earn that is, I always say, just. It's brick by brick.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:02]:
But can we. Can we also say the other side? So let's say he admits it. Let's say he's willing to take the steps. And what is the female heart or the other heart on this other side of like, oh, I was right. I'm going to now use this as authority.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:18]:
Well, they both need to submit to each other.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:19]:
I think that's the piece that I like.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:21]:
They both need to have grace on both ends.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:26]:
He needs to not play the role of the child. So a child would not come and apologize. Would not own it. Would not. It'd be like, let's. All right, let's play the role of the man. All right, I own that. I shouldn't have done that that way.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:36]:
This is a mistake. All those. Own it fully. She has to refuse to play the role of the parent. It cannot be. I'm gonna be checking everything and watching everything. Because here's the temptation, especially based on if her personality is what we think it is, is she's gonna look for even more control. So the idea is that control is gonna lead to safety, that money is gonna lead to safety.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:59]:
I didn't experience that here. So I'm gonna double down on this idea of control. And here's the thing. If his personality is what we think it is, her attempt to control is gonna tempt him even more to go do things behind their back and all those kind of things. Have you ever worked for a boss who was like a micromanager? And whenever you have a boss that's a micromanager, you're like, I don't even want to tell him what I'm doing because they're not going to trust me or respect me, all that kind of thing. So you start doing things behind their back just to get things done. Well, let's say that person gets fired. Somebody comes in that they really believe in you.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:33]:
Well, what do you do in that moment? You actually go to them and say, hey, can you help me with this? Because you trust them. And she now has to refuse to play the role of the parent because it will almost enable him to play the role of the child even more.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:46]:
Yeah. And can we level up one more time? So, like, the building of trust, that way you can go be vulnerable. It's like when you trust in God and trust that he will provide the other end of this storm or the suffering or this fight or whatever. It's like, I trust in him enough and I know my relationship with him enough that I can go to you and say, hey, X, Y, and Z, we're in a spot here, But I know he's gonna provide us after this storm is over. Can you give me grace? Or can you do this, that and the other thing? Because I trust that he will provide. Right. I think because. Because when you say control and money and security, I think of lack of faith.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:23]:
That's where I go. It's just like, well, what? Hold on. He's going to provide, but at the same time, I'm looking in the mirror and saying, no, you need to be wiser. This is a different season of life. We need to do a better job at this, that and the other thing. We can't buy all the Christmas gifts to fill your heart, Blaine. So there'll be no Christmas at the Newfelts.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:42]:
Think about. But let's end with some hope here.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:45]:
You're right.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:46]:
Think about what next Christmas can look like for this couple. Let's say he comes back to have the conversation. They begin to rebuild trust and respect of what's going on. He takes some responsibility for the finances. Let's say he does it in January and begins to say, oh, my goodness, this is why you can't just wildly spend whatever it is that you want to spend. But maybe he finds a little bit more freedom in there than what she actually saw, so she can be encouraged to have a little bit more fun. Next thing you know, they're appreciating. She's recognizing man.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:11]:
It's the freewheeling spirit in him that I'm drawn to. I need to lean into that more. Here's the irony to me. She needs to become more like him, and he needs to become more like her in this moment. He needs to learn some restraint. She needs to learn some fun, in all likelihood. And now they begin to experience this. And sometime over the summer, they have a conversation.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:29]:
What do we want Christmas to be? Not what's the dollar amount?
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:32]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:33]:
What do we want Christmas to be? Okay. How much money do we have to provide that? Okay, now, how can we match our finances into what it is that we desire? And next year's Christmas has such a potential. And notice this now. All the skills that they've learned will ripple into every other disagreement that they possibly have to where they are now, leveraging their personality in a positive way. They're coming from a secure attachment, being assertive in the midst of their communication. Right? They're staying in their lane, owning everything that they should possibly own and having this joint partnership and what's taking place, which builds their friendship, which builds their intimacy. And they have such potential. If they can just break down this one fight and make changes, you know what it could do, babe?
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:17]:
Do you know what it can do.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:19]:
Change it could change the odds.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:20]:
The odds?
Kevin Thompson [00:35:21]:
We'll see you next time.