Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:00]:
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever criticized your spouse's parenting, but underneath it, you weren't just disagreeing about discipline. It wasn't just their tone, it wasn't just the consequences, it wasn't even the rules. It was the feeling that their intensity made you anxious, that their way of handling things felt emotionally overwhelming. Today's fight club is about a couple who didn't argue about parenting styles. They argued about safety, control, and two very different nervous systems trying to protect their family. If you've ever thought you're being too hard or why are you so sensitive, this one's for you.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:34]:
Here we are. Welcome back to Change the House podcast where marriage and family we're never meant to be. A game of Chance, Blaine and Adrienne Neufeld alongside myself, Kevin Thompson and parenting. Who better to do a parenting podcast than the three of us?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:48]:
Well, yeah, let's find out.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:51]:
We'll be honest. I don't know if we're the best, but we'll be honest about it.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:55]:
So, I mean, so we talk about marriage all the time. So how about this? Talking to Silas the other day, 17 year old son, we're out getting lunch or whatever. And I told him in a moment of confession, I said, look, there's probably nothing I think of more in life than how to be a better dad.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:10]:
Wow.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:10]:
And he goes, you don't think about how to be a better husband? And I said, rarely. I'm long past that. Basically. Basically what I told him. So, I mean, what Jenny and I say all the time, we love our children, clearly we love our children, but we say marriage is great. Parenting sucks. That's our viewpoint of how this works. Because there's something about parenting that just pulls out of you every weakness, every insecurity, every frustration.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:40]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:40]:
And there's. And we want what's best for our kids to such a level that it can be exhausting sometimes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:47]:
My 7 year old daughter, who's our middle and very like feely, lovey, emotionally feels big. She was like, do you love daddy more? Or like she asked me something about, who do you love the most? Like, do you love me the most? I was like, nope, I love God, your dad. And then you. I was like, she's the kid that you probably shouldn't say to you. So I probably messed her up now.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:09]:
And you love them all the same. Someone just had a baby the other day and the second baby and they were blown away on the fact that they could love their first child with their full heart and they love their second Child with their full heart. And it's incredible because. And I said that's when I discovered, like, God's love for me. And because I was like, how could God ever love everyone? That's crazy, right? But no, you love each of your kids with your full heart. And it's hard to explain, but they do make you go crazy.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:39]:
Oh, no doubt. But here's the thing. Love is not limited, right? Every other thing that we have in life feels limited. Like, if you give me a dollar, that's a dollar you no longer have. But whenever it comes to love, if I give you love, I actually then have more love to give Adrienne more love to give the next person. But we think of it in limited terms. But it's not like I love Jenny. And Ella was born, and I had to go to Jenny and say, hey, I'm going to have to love you a little.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:06]:
I'm going to have to take this quantity of love away from you. So I can give that to her, but instead it compounds, right? And I think that's the beauty of God's kingdom.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:14]:
Even if you have a seven year
Kevin Thompson [00:03:16]:
old, well, you can't.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:18]:
You love them, but you just don't like them. Is that okay?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:21]:
I don't know if that's the way she can say that to her 7 year old about her daddy. I love your daddy. I don't always like your daddy. So, no, I do think that there's a little bit of concept of it's not a hierarchy that you'll learn over time that love isn't limited, that I can actually love you and love your sister at the same time with just as much intensity.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:45]:
That's good.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:45]:
And then, you know, then the next time she's having her favorite dessert, you can kind of cut that dessert in half and say, now which one.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:52]:
Which.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:52]:
Which piece of this do you love the most? You don't. You love the whole thing. Same thing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:57]:
Knowledgeable.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:59]:
All right, so what's our fight today? We got a letter written in Adrienne.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:05]:
Let's go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:05]:
Okay, let's do it. Hey, fight club. I'm honestly at my limit with my husband's parenting style.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:11]:
Here we go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:13]:
He's a good dad. Perfect. He's faithful, involved in. Our kids love him. He never crosses the line into anything abusive. But he is intense. He's firm, direct. He raises his voice when they disrespect or when they're disrespectful and hands out consequences immediately.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:29]:
To me, it feels harsh. I'm more laid back. I talk things Through. I don't think every mistake needs a serious response, but he treats small acts of disobedience like they're major character failures. Excuse me. Last night, our son talked back. My husband stepped in quickly, used a firm voice, and sent him to his room. Nothing extreme, but the whole interaction made my chest tighten.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:49]:
It felt heavy and overwhelming. I told him afterward that he was too demanding and too emotionally intense with the kids. He said he was being clear and consistent, not harsh. Now we're barely talking. I'm a five with anxious attachment. He's an eight with secure attachment. I feel like he's too much. He feels a.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:07]:
Like I'm undermining him. Help us, because we're stuck.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:09]:
Wow.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:10]:
Here we are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:11]:
I can see this one.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:12]:
You, Blaine. So this. He's you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:15]:
He is me.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:15]:
Blaine.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:16]:
He is me. Eight. Secure.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:18]:
Oh, eight and secure.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:20]:
But you're not the tough one in the family. You're not the tough parent.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:23]:
Oh, he is me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:25]:
Okay, well, we can dive into that later.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:29]:
I'll show you my toughness right now.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:32]:
So, Blaine, tell us about this guy. What's this guy like? Just describe yourself.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:37]:
Well, I'm curious. There's many different. Different paths that I'm kind of going down and questioning about the scenario. Number one, does he feel like he has to be super intense because of her lack of intensity? So he's over being intense with some of the kids, because if I'm seeing our parenting styles, and it's like, hey, you understand? Yes. They're emotional. They need this emotional need. Meta. And then it gets to a point of like, this is ridiculous.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:06]:
So if this has happened again and again, he might just go to the end line. It's like, I will just be assertive of this and just be done with it. And this is very relatable because one of our son. One of our sons. We only have one son. You guess who? He said something under his breath the other day, and he was kind of being joking. He didn't really mean it, I can tell. But he said something disrespectful back to his mom.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:40]:
His mom never even heard it. I said, what did you say? And he said this again. He admitted that he said it. I said, you're done.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:48]:
Go.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:48]:
That was it. Like, there was no warning. It was nothing. Like, there's. There are certain things that just require. No. What's it called? Yeah, there's no warning. You're done.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:01]:
That's it. Are you kidding me? You know better, right? So I can see this man.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:05]:
Here's what I love about this question, Adrienne, I don't know if you noticed this. I just asked Blaine a question about himself, and he immediately went to the topic at hand. There was no reflection. There was no here's who I am as a person. There was no so. But this is perfect. This is beautiful.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:21]:
This is how I see the world constantly.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:22]:
This is exactly how you see the world.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:24]:
I've never gone inside.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:25]:
You didn't even hear that. I ask you to look introspectively to yourself. So this is an 8. An 8 has an outward perspective. It's about the task. It's about what needs to be done, what needs to be changed. It's about what is out beyond me. And so I'm not really aware of what's going on inside of me.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:43]:
Let's just go make a difference in what's taking place. And so I literally asked you to describe yourself, and you started to describe things and activities and actions that happen
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:54]:
and how you handled it.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:55]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:55]:
And many different paths that could go.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:58]:
No, that's all great. It was a perfect illustration. So an eight, right? A healthy eight. And this sounds like a really healthy eight. You are a very healthy eight. The healthy eight gets things done. High sense of justice. Has no problem with conflict.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:13]:
Can step in and say, here's what needs to happen. Has no problem bringing whatever is the elephant in the room. Adrienne and I are over there. Not talking about Adrienne has a nine. You don't want to bring it up. I with anxious attachment. I don't want to cause a fight. Blaine walks in the room and goes, who brought the elephant? What are we gonna do about this? And so it's such a great gift.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:34]:
Great leaders, heads of organizations. Clearly, Adrienne, we can see what you're attracted to. Takes care of things, all that. You feel safe in his presence. You know, if you don't want to take care of something, he'll go take care of it. All those kinds of things.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:48]:
I might abuse that a little bit
Kevin Thompson [00:08:49]:
and then go get him, babe.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:52]:
All right.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:52]:
Cheering on and then on top of that, a secure attachment. So. So doesn't mean perfect by any means, but means generally speaking, I have a good sense of myself, a good sense of others. I know I can depend upon others, trust on others. If there is conflict, we'll probably figure it out. We'll repair it in some way. So an 8 can be outward, because outward can be very expressive and not necessarily know the impact that that could have on others because they're not really in touch with what's going on inside Themselves.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:20]:
Can I say, like, he laughs a lot and loudly. And if we're in a group setting, I am worried about the people who aren't laughing with him. I'm like, they're gonna feel left out.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:32]:
The other tables.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:33]:
Yeah. No, well, that or just, like, if it's a big group and you're, like, really connecting with one person and the two of you are laughing, I'm like, can you just, like, include the other people? Like, I don't want them to feel left out because you two are just like.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:44]:
And I don't want to leave them out.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:45]:
No, you just wouldn't see them.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:47]:
But I didn't even know they were there.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:49]:
Somebody, if Adrienne brought to your attention that you had left them out, you would feel bad.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:53]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:53]:
But you wouldn't see them in the moment.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:55]:
I would try everything to get them in.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:57]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:58]:
And that's where it's like. That's when I feel like I'm at my best version of myself is like, I love to include. I love to help. I love to bring everybody into the mix. At no point would it. Would I be laughing and it's at someone else.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:14]:
No, but. No, but I'm just, like, overly aware that, like, that person wants to be laughing with you, but they're not. That's kind of a side.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:23]:
Well, that's the. That's one of the superpowers. That is you can offset each other's weaknesses and bring a more of a fullness to one another.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:32]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:33]:
So. So here, now. Now we have her. Her as. As a five. So think about five as high information. So I'm a six wing five. So it's the five of me that is always telling you all about the latest research.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:45]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:45]:
And the statistics that does this. So high information. High information finds a great amount of security and certainty in knowing what the answer is. And here's how we're going to move forward. How I'm going to move forward, specifically as a Five, a little bit less aware of emotions and will not be outward in. In any way. So an inward focus. So they're aware of what's going on inside of themselves.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:14]:
Inward and anxious.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:16]:
Not always aware of what's going on outwardly, not always aware of what's going on in the dynamic between the space between people, but keenly aware of what they're feeling on the inside of their own thoughts of all those kind of things. A 5 tends to be less comfortable with emotion and expression of emotion, so they tend to be much more reserved people. Oftentimes, whenever you think about a five, some school teachers are this way, although that sometimes demands too much from them. Think about it. People think about this idea. Very reserved, very smart, always has the answer. This is the person you turn to when you can't figure something out. You turn to this person.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:52]:
Accountants, a lot of accountants would be a five. So think about how these two people now fall in love, right? Is he has an outward tendency, she has an inward attendancy. So they got both those two bases now covered. They're always aware of what's going on in between, but they have these two bases. So he looks at her and probably thinks, man, I wish I could be as in tune with myself of what's going on, understanding what I think and what I feel. She looks at him and goes, man, I wish I could be that outward focused on accomplishing things and getting things done. Because I'm Tim, I'm a little. Not timid, a bad word.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:25]:
I'm more reserved. He's not going to be reserved. She's going to be very reserved. And he probably thinks to hurt himself on occasion when he sees her. Man, I wish I could be that self contained. Right? He's always worried about everything else that's going on around him. What would it be like to not feel the sense of justice about everything? To go, oh, they can take care of themselves, so they now fall in love in that way. But she's now going to have this anxious attachment which is going to create a unique dynamic inside of her where very aware of what's going on inside of her, probably not as comfortable with some emotions.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:00]:
And yet this anxious attachment can feel more emotional on occasion. So parenting steps in and now they're each parenting from their own perspective, not really aware of the other. And she has a fear now, and it really is a debate now of this idea of emotional safety and kind of this a true confrontation of what's right. Which do we care about more? Do we want to do what's right or do we want to feel safe? And those two things actually aren't at odds, but they can feel at odds inside of who we actually are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:39]:
I think the more secure I've gotten, the more willingness I have to understand what's going on in a child's. The emotional side of the child, where I would far more respect that information and knowledge that Adrienne brings to me about these kids than I used to because it was an insecurity more so, right? Like, no, I'm going to lead, I'm going to get it Done. I'm going to say it this. No, no, no, no. You need a little bit of both. So as he is secure, yes. But he might be insecure with her a little bit where he doesn't necessarily respect her opinion on how emotional they are because he thinks she's so far the other way on the emotion side, where he's got to humble himself and say, no, she's bringing so much to the table. And that I will actually meet these kids needs far greater and far more efficiently and forever long versus the way I'm doing it because of our one daughter who today I was like, I felt the awareness of Adrienne and saying, I'm going to explain to her why I did what I did for her to get her to the place that she needed to go.
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:48]:
Because I was very forceful and she's very emotional. And I had to, like, also logically tell you her, I did this, this, and this because we were going to be late. I love you. I care about you. You're safe, you're secure with me. Right. Because I could see her, like, scared when I was like, no, we have to do this now. And she was having a tantrum and all the things.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:11]:
But at the same time, I felt when she was calm, I had to reassure her, you're loved, you're seen, you're safe. Something that I probably wouldn't have done a year ago if it wasn't for Adrienne's superpower.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:22]:
No, absolutely. And you can see how this couple together can be a super power couple in that he's going to make sure the home is getting things done. He's going to bring the energy, she's going to bring the order. And now, whenever you combine those two things, kids need both, right? Kids need energy, relationships need energy. Left her own devices, it's conceivable, left her own devices. If the house was exactly like her, it might become too cold, too rigid. At the same time, if the house was only him, it might become too energized, too chaotic to where literally we talk about the window of tolerance. It could become this idea of, he brings too much energy, she doesn't bring enough.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:10]:
And the kids live in a state of constant confusion, whereas together now they're energized and they're orderly all at the same time. So there's a sense of predictability for the kids to know what to expect. There's not this shock about what might happen. The downside with an anxious attachment is sometimes her discipline may not be consistent.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:28]:
Oh, that's me.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:29]:
So it can be a concept of a child does the exact same thing. Two moments right in a row and one time it's a laugh and one time it's correction that leads to confusion inside the child. This can actually be. You know, part of what we do within our day jobs is within our family of bayside churches. There's also a Christian school. This can be a downside of a Christian school by the way, is it's this pressure of we have to be so Christian that sometimes it leads to an inconsistency in the discipline. So it's, it's. I will.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:04]:
I'll overlook this and overlook that and then all of a sudden come out harshly and punish something that I've been overlooking. Because we want to play nice with everybody instead of having the secure attachment. Because sometimes, sometimes in the name of Christianity we can be either anxiously or avoidantly attached instead of having a secure attachment where there's this beautiful consistency about what we do and it's no shot on me or anybody else. Look, you broke a rule. Here's the consequence. I feel so bad for you. We're going to be fine. Right? That knows how that securely that even sounds.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:35]:
The relationship is fine. Who you are is fine. The. There's consequences to that. You got to play this out. I have compassion upon you. Whereas anxious or avoidant is. I'm going to overlook it, overlook it, overlook it and then suddenly do something about it.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:47]:
And anxious might be. I might emotionally flash. That takes us out of context wondering is our relationship even safe anymore in any way. And so there's a power here between the two of them. However, the danger in this moment is basically she can at times, I think look at his intensity. And because of her anxious attachment so uncomfortable and ramping up what's going on. She can actually I think sometimes judge good parenting as bad.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:22]:
That's how I heard it. It's just like what? No, no, he's right. Right. This is strong, good parenting.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:28]:
But.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:29]:
But that's my only perspective. Right. Whereas.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:32]:
But what can she bring to him though?
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:35]:
Yeah. Wisdom.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:36]:
So here's the beauty of secure attachment, I think is non secure attachment sometimes I think can make it feel all or nothing. Right. So especially anxiously attached. I can often begin to think one of the signs that I know that I'm working from my anxious attachment is if I start to think, well, Jenny would just do this, if Ella would just do this, if Silas would just do this, if Mark would just do this, would just do this. So it becomes all about somebody else needs to do Something for me to be okay. That's anxious attachment. Right? Well, well, think about with your children. They're all spiritual, they're all emotionally immature.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:10]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:11]:
So they're.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:19:11]:
But he never takes owners.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:14]:
No, no, no, no.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:15]:
It's not like he's listening to the podcast and this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:18]:
But this is the fun part about parenting to me is I'm gaining this wisdom from you guys. And I see it very clearly that there's certain elements where he's anxiously attached, as we all are. Right. And it's a fun opportunity to say, hey, bud, it's good, it's okay, it's fine if you make a mistake. We got tons of grace, we got forgiveness. This is your point of, of a. In a community where it's like, religion has to be so tight knit that we can't make a mistake. Stop it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:47]:
It's fine. It's okay. Let's take ownership. Because if we can take ownership, then we can confess to God and say, I'm scared. I don't have this in control. Can you help me see where I'm at with this thing? But if you can't do that, you're never going to become securely attached to Jesus. Right. Which is the goal.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:06]:
And I can see it in him where it's like, just take ownership. And he's like, I can't. He won't say I can't. He'll be like, no, but this happened and that happened. I get that, I get that.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:15]:
But come on, another way to look at this, maybe to reframe it, to make it helpful, because one thing I don't want is I don't want listeners to be looking at their minor children and putting a label on them of what their attachment style is. It's way too early for any of that. It is like, oh yeah, way too early. I'll know what Ellen Silas attachment styles are when they're in their late 20s and they figure them out, but because they're still in development. So another way to look at this is think about a secure attachment as a more mature attachment and non secure is a more emotional immaturity. Well, of course your kids are emotionally immature because of where their ages are. So they're still learning and figuring that out. Now.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:58]:
It's good for you to recognize, no, this is not a secure approach. But that doesn't mean that's who they are. It doesn't mean anything. It just means at this developmental stage of where they are, they're learning and so they get to figure it out over time. I Mean even with, I mean obviously Ella with Dunn Center's in a different scenario. But Silas At 17, it's too early for me to be saying now I have some thoughts. Right. I think personality wise we are, I think we're pretty zeroed in.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:24]:
I think I know where he is from. A lead style, his love style. I think it's way too early to figure out because we're all, especially at that age 17, going to be emotionally immature and that's going to express itself in non secure patterns of attachment.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:39]:
Yeah. I just see so many opportunities to show them that hopefully they're foundational pieces later on in life. It's like, see dad's anxious there and he's, he's. I'm just, you know, I got to pray. I gotta reset, I gotta talk about. It's good to talk about your feelings with somebody that's helped our kids a lot in these little seasons. And it's like we have a very secure home as well. I think that the kids could very easily tell us what they're feeling.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:05]:
I hope that happens when they're 25, 30 and they're saying I'm on a date and I'm having trouble understanding this. Let's talk about it. No judgment. Let's figure this thing out. I want that home. That's a good home.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:16]:
No doubt. Let's look at where she's right and he's wrong in that he is probably not going to be as aware of how his actions are impacting the insides of other people. He's not aware of his own, of how it's impacting inside of himself. She is. And I think in part that's probably what attracted them to each other. She was attracted by his outward focus, he's attracted by her inward focus. Because it's something neither one of them have. There's a novelty that's there differences.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:43]:
Jenny, by the way, last night said, hey, if you want me to come back on the podcast, I'm willing to, to talk about how we navigate differences. And I was like, what did I just do? Literally what did I do at the house that caused Jenny to go, I should go on the podcast. But it's this idea of what she commented on was how few things we actually have in common that where I am. Here's what she said. She can use her own words later. But she said, Kevin, I was thinking the other day, you do so many things so well and the things that you don't do well, I do well.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:22]:
That's great.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:23]:
And then I wanted to be like, so what's the list? I know there's a list of all these things. Right? Of what it is. And just talking about the beauty of what that looks like. And so I can see how this is how this couple has come together. And what she can help him is to understand, you know what, Whenever you do come in with that energy for some personalities that's scary. It's not just an attachment thing. It is. Some personalities can be a little bit overwhelmed by that.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:52]:
And to begin to bring that to his attention, to help him to consider again, what we're looking for is we all have a way that we naturally pay attention to the world but we can develop the other ways. And we already have a little bit of an ability. It's just not as strong. He can begin. We all have an ability to see the relational between. We have ability to look inward, outward, all that which is not well developed. He can begin to develop that within himself to recognize how are my kids reacting in this moment? Is there a sense of a lack of safety that they feel that's not true. But can I go about that in a better way? And then here's what I think is also an opportunity.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:30]:
Take her information driven inward focused. She's probably really good at nuance. She's probably really good at recognizing not every situation the same. This is one way. This is a little bit different. But it's a different way here. Outward focus is much more just coming in full energy and losing the nuance of the situation. I wonder if what's going on here is if maybe do they have a child that's a personality that doesn't mesh as well with an eight that feels overrun.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:02]:
Probably their middle child
Kevin Thompson [00:25:07]:
because. And then she's seeing it and he's not. He's like I'm parenting all. I don't know how many kids. I can't remember how many kids there were. I'm parenting all three kids the exact same way. And her point would be but they shouldn't be parented the same way. Each one's unique.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:22]:
And is it possible that was one of these kids? He's coming in with this energy. There's also another question that's played here that we don't have. The answer for is I would love to know the cultural backgrounds here. Is it. I come from a very low emotional family. There weren't these huge fights and arguments that I remember. There were some a little bit whenever I was little, but not much. I feel like in part after my parents first divorced when they Remarried each other.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:55]:
I don't know if there was a conversation or not. I've never had it with them. But it's almost like it was either an agreement or an unsaid unspoken agreement. We're not going to show the kids disagreement. Right. And so very. There wasn't a ton of yelling, anything like that. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:13]:
Well, I got some friends that are an Italian family and they're as happy as can be at a level of volume that makes me uncomfortable. Like there is no way I could operate in the system right now. Think about if you come from a very low emotionally expressive background, it can be attractive to say, man, I wish I could be able to say whatever I wanted to say and nobody care. And if you come to this extremely emotionally expressive background to see a little bit of peace and quiet every now and then has to be a draw. So you can see how these two personalities would be drawn to each other if that's the case based on these family of origins, how they can be drawn to each other. And suddenly kids come into the picture and they both kick into their family of origin. That's how they're going to parent. And the other one feels threatening.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:05]:
And so he might be thinking to himself, if I don't step in, these kids are going to overrun her. And who wants a child that's going to grow up with no discipline whatsoever? It's all about your feelings and are you emotionally connected? How's that going to work in the workplace? And he can be thinking to himself, if I don't step in, then they're in trouble. And she can be thinking to herself, if I let him step in, we might have to call the police.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:28]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:30]:
And they never recognize that the personality attachment and now the family of origin is at play in what's going on. And how can we learn to leverage this for the for the best and then recognize we just parent in different ways?
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:45]:
Yeah, I got two thoughts.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:47]:
Go for it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:47]:
Okay. Number one is how parents appearance can view parenting as their opinion. You know, with non secure attachment with in laws or your own parents. And now you're trying to connect both of your personalities in this new family. And your parents are trying to influence your parenting from their perspective on their own. It's just this, this grouping of personalities that everyone's opinion of is so different but yet everyone's secure attachment is so beneficial of the wisdom that they could embark on relationship. Because the way I see you guys is I'm an act, I go and do things, I'm a doer. But I want to sit here and take all the information, all the wisdom and I'm like, oh, I'm better, I can go and lead better.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:41]:
Right. So it's like I need those kind of people around me so that I can go and be the best version of myself. But when it is insecure or anxious or avoidant or what have you, that is a dynamic that I'm just processing out loud here. It was like our kids and the parents and grandparents and all the things. It's just fascinating me.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:04]:
Well, and even the concept of it, I can't remember what. There's a theory behind this of law, of what it is. But basically, as an employee, the worst employee you are, the better you think you are. So I think it's somewhat true of parenting as well. And so parents with the secure attachment can recognize, oh, there were probably ways that I screwed you up. There were ways that I got it right. You're going to parent in a different way than I am. That's not a threat to me now.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:31]:
It's not a judgment upon me. Whereas if you have a non secure kind of pathway, especially with your kids, if they start parenting in a way separate from you, you're going to feel like, oh, my kids think I did this wrong. Notice how it becomes about you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:29:43]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:44]:
So it's not about how your grandkids are being raised. It's about an indictment on who you are as a person. And so anxious or especially anxious attachment, but avoidant too would cause you to focus on yourself and suddenly you're taking somebody else's actions as an indictment on you. Whereas a secure approach is that, yeah, it was tough, I screwed it up. I hope they learned some things. They're probably doing a great job. You see how so you can almost see what would the family dynamic be like here? I would being fascinated. What the in laws are you starting to say?
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:13]:
The Italians. And I've got great buddies that are Italians and watching the dynamic, I was always drawn to that because we were shouters. We. I love a debate, we can talk it through. But my friend, when we're sitting there around the table like, are they fighting? No, they're not fighting. They're having a great time.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:29]:
I could be playing golf with a friend of ours and so he and his buddy, they can start just kind of going at it with each other. And I've communicated this enough that my buddy will say, hey, Kevin's really uncomfortable with this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:43]:
You're uncomfortable.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:44]:
Because I'm like, there's about to be a fight. I Gotta make this relationship right. And they're just talking like, I'm suddenly the child again, trying to step in, navigate the adult's emotions, you know?
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:53]:
And I'm trying to stir up the fight because it's better for my golf game if they're off.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:02]:
So what do you think here, Adrienne, as you listen to this dynamic of what's going on? What. What's your. What's your takeaway or reflection on it? You have anything.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:12]:
Gosh, put me on the spot.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:14]:
I know how you love it. I love that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:18]:
I. I just think we can relate a lot to the parenting styles. Parenting styles affect even. Not even marriage, but friendships and stuff, too. It's just. It's a really tricky thing to navigate sometimes, and I think I'm just processing all of that. But I think we've done a good job at, like. And each kid is so different.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:39]:
I don't know. I just. It's kind of overwhelming me right now.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:42]:
I get it. Here's where I think they could benefit. I think they could benefit from the work that we do here to truly understand their personalities, their attachment, a little bit of work on their families of origin to recognize what do we bring to the table.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:55]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:56]:
And instead of seeing this as we could do it this way or we could do it that way, these are all now tools that we have. We can leverage all of this. And let's have some conversations about how to align our parenting styles. And what are the things you're going to take control of? What are the things you're going to take control of? And then you talked about it earlier, of. There are times where you tap out, this isn't working for me. And now how can you step in? And if they will recognize that what they actually have here is their differences are actually this great strength. They can learn to appreciate and then begin to learn from each other. I think that can go a long way.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:33]:
Yeah, that's the piece that. I know I was rambling there, but that's the piece that I think I'm taking away is I see the strengths in these people, our kids. I said this today. I'm like, she's anxiously avoiding some school event or classroom participant. And I'm like, the very thing that's making you feel that way is actually a gift. You have empathy for someone that is insecure, and you're feeling for them. You could speak life into them, but she needs to be spoken life into too first. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, as a partner, as a Friend.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:08]:
We can be speaking life into our, our spouses or our friends as they parent their kids because those very things that they're fighting against are the kids strengths, the personality. There's a strength in there that's being misguided. Right. So it's like I see so many strengths that I got to speak out in Adrienne, because it makes our team better versus selfishly worried about how I can get my point across.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:33]:
So then maybe that's a good thing that this couple could do is, you know, she could say that to him. Like, I love that you want to take charge and like lead this family and, and put all these strength, like, you know, discipline is good when it's done well and you care about our kids, that they flourish in the future. But the way it's coming out feels, you know, intense maybe. Is there a way we could do it differently together?
Kevin Thompson [00:33:59]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:59]:
Like you could, you could write down how we've set our kids enough cash. You should do it this way for cash. And I would go and do it. Indy needs this. Oh, okay, great. That's great. Ryan needs this. Oh, sweet.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:12]:
And I could help with my attributes to bring the most out of them. And you can make sure that they're seen in it and they're safe in it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:20]:
But a lot of the times like this morning, I'm like praying kind of. I was just like, I don't know what she needs. So like, even praying about what your kids need and how you can approach their needs I think is even key.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:35]:
And here, here's, here's the, the reflection point from this morning. I think for you guys is, okay, what. In the midst of all the frustration is actually a beautiful sign of her development that you can actually begin to speak life into. You had to force her to get ready, right? And she hated it. I love the fact that she hates it. I love the fact that she wants to control herself, that she doesn't like to be controlled. She doesn't like this outside force upon her. She wants to run her own schedule.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:06]:
Man, I love that you're starting to take some ownership of your own life. And what that looks like. That's beautiful. Now you gotta get dressed. We gotta go to school. Like, there's this whole other side, but even within that concept, you think about it, how frustrating it is whenever your child learns the word no, right? And there's no no, no, no, no. It's a beautiful. Imagine if they didn't have that ability.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:28]:
We want them to have that ability.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:29]:
That's a good.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:30]:
Now what is it that we can nurture within them to begin to channel it in a way that's gonna be most useful to them? But behind every bad behavior, many times are some good desires and some good development that's taking place. And we need to applaud and recognize and validate that even as we're correcting over on the other side. So in this couple, they're both right. She is right to have some concern about what this might be feeling. And he can learn from that, maybe lower his intensity, change where it is. At the same time, he's right. He's stepping in from a secure approach. He's dealing with things they need to be dealt with.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:07]:
And then together, they can begin to navigate a very positive outcome if they have the humility to both recognize, what do I need to grow here? What is that I need to accept, and what is it that I can learn, and how can I help my spouse and learn at the same time? And if we do that, you know what's going to happen?
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:23]:
What's that going to happen?
Kevin Thompson [00:36:24]:
What's going to happen, Adrienne?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:25]:
They're going to change the odds.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:26]:
That's exactly right. We'll see you all next time.