Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey. Welcome back to Change the Odds, where marriage and family were never meant to be. A game of chance. Blaine and Adrienne. Here we are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:04]:
Here we are.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:05]:
How are we this morning?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:06]:
How you doing, babe?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:07]:
Fine, Adrienne.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:08]:
Oh, fine.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:08]:
Oh, wow.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:09]:
Better than it was. Interesting.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:11]:
Fine. To level up. Better than it was leveled up. Do we see? Let me ask you this. Are morning times tough for you, especially school mornings?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:19]:
Yeah. I mean, there's other things going on in my body today too, so there we go.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:24]:
Okay. Not mine. So anyway. Hey. All right. I was so excited. So it sounds like things could be a little bit more tense at this moment, at this season, and what a perfect episode this is going to be.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:42]:
Let's do it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:43]:
I'm right here.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:43]:
So we have. Adrienne and Blaine have gone on Instagram and you have asked for what are the fights that people are having? And we're going to start with one today to see how it goes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:54]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:55]:
I like this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:56]:
Yes. So we're very excited. Kevin, you are the guru of analyzing our con. We're very people. I'm going to other people.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:03]:
Analyzing other people. That's fine.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:04]:
That's fine.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:05]:
We'll take it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:05]:
And we have taken it. And we, I think, enjoy a good fight. I think the listener would understand that we're not afraid to have a good fight because on the other side, there's a lot of freedom and there's love and there's growth.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:17]:
Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:17]:
So therefore, we wanted to bring forward a few fights that followers on Instagram have brought to our attention so that they, too.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:26]:
How do they follow you on Instagram, by the way?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:28]:
Adrienne Drennufeldt.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:30]:
There we go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:31]:
A D, R, I, E, N, N, E, E, N, E, U, F E, L, D. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:34]:
Don't pull over and write that down.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:35]:
A lot of N's and a lot of U's.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:36]:
It's not Neufelder.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:38]:
Not Neufelder and not New field. Oh.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:41]:
Anyways, can I ask a question? You said good fights. Are there such a thing as bad fights or are all fights?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:48]:
Oh, 100%.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:49]:
Okay, never mind.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:50]:
100%. No, I think the more important thing is to recognize there's such thing as good fights.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:53]:
Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:54]:
Well, that just struck a chord. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Like a good fight is a skill.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:00]:
Oh, it's a skill. Well done. It moves, it helps you. It actually draws you closer together. This is an interesting thing to me is two couples can have the exact same disagreement, and on the other end of it, one couple could feel extremely disconnected, and the other Couple actually feel more connected. And so many times, what we think is healthy couples fight less. A lot of times, healthy couples fight more, fight well and fight well. And then that actually leads to their connection.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:25]:
It's a deeper connection. But that goes back to the point of do we have this underlying emotional connection upon which everything else is we're experiencing? If we don't, then a fight is gonna drive us further apart. If we do, then a fight's probably gonna actually bring us closer together.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:41]:
So it's almost like we wanna be a part of, like, the fight well club.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:44]:
Oh, Fight well.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:45]:
Fight well. Ooh, Fight well. I don't know. Did she test the names?
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:48]:
The marriage fight club.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:49]:
Yeah. Let's get in the ring, shall we?
Kevin Thompson [00:02:52]:
Marriage. There we go. Well done. Wow. Marketing guru Adrienne has shown up today. I like this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:59]:
And based on this, it's always a guess.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:04]:
You're welcome.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:05]:
We're keeping it exciting, and we're happy she's here.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:08]:
We love Adrienne. We love her to be here.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:09]:
Okay, so. Ding, ding, ding. First fight. Can I just kind of give you the context of it or what's.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:14]:
Process through? Yeah, let me hear it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:15]:
So one of our friends, they. They messaged us in, and they said this. I put my keys in the same spot every day. When she can't find hers, she uses mine and then loses them.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:26]:
Oh, my.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:26]:
Oh, we miss you. Okay, we'll just throw that one in there. And then she is usually way more structured, but she packs her schedule too full, and it's always in a rush and usually just grabs whatever is convenient as she runs out the door or her keys are in one of her 18. Oh, 18.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:47]:
Little jab there. That's a punch. That's kind of a throat punch.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:50]:
Yeah, yeah. That's not fighting fair, is it, Kevin?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:53]:
That's. That's something right there.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:54]:
But let's continue on. I'm usually more. I'm usually more the scattered one, but I need specific areas to place my things, otherwise I'll never find them.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:03]:
Oh, that's growth.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:04]:
He's figured it out.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:05]:
He's learned something about himself.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:08]:
Please hold all comments to the end.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:10]:
So sorry.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:10]:
So when my keys are not there, when I look for them, I spend 30 to 60 seconds searching for them, thinking I've gone insane. And I'm trying to search her purses, multiple purses again. But it's like an endless chasm. Chasm.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:26]:
Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:26]:
Reading is important. Encourage you guys to read more ev. Hot Wheels cars, Lego minifigures, tampons, eyeliners, chapsticks. Lotions, and a random 20 bill in that purse. That is the fight we're dealing with, Kevin. Okay, begin.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:41]:
Interesting. So how does. Does this resonate with y'? All? So if y' all were going. I mean, is it. Is it very typical? Adrienne would be the wife here. Bl. Be the husband, or what does that look like?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:49]:
No, I don't think so, actually. No, I think. I think I'm the husband. In this situation where I am pretty organized with my things. I would put my keys in the same spot you usually come in. You're like, where's my wallet?
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:05]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:05]:
Yeah, where's my wallet?
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:06]:
Because there's.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:07]:
I just had it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:07]:
There's probably four places I'll typically put it. But I will say not to, like, give any clues of how to deal with this particular thing. She got super organized in our house, and now we have a little tray. I know that's where the key.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:21]:
Home sort. Did home sort come over?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:23]:
It was Adrienne sort of myself, but I am friends with it.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:26]:
Sorry. Home sort.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:27]:
We'll use it next time.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:28]:
So much for them being a sponsor.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:30]:
No, but I am inspired by them.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:32]:
Yes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:32]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:32]:
100 Instagram.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:34]:
But you would be very organized. I would be the chaos one.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:37]:
But I do resonate with, like, the mom brain of having, like, a thousand things in your purse that half the time aren't even yours. You're just like, okay, put it in my. Like, my purse is big and heavy a lot of the time, so I. I get the chaos of, like, stuff.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:55]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:56]:
And kids and scattered brain. But I always know where my keys are. Also, we have a Tesla now, so it's pretty easy. On your phone.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:04]:
Call your phone.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:04]:
No, it's kind of tricky. I show up at work on a. On occasion now without a key because I don't have to have a key. Yeah, it's your phone.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:10]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:11]:
Yeah. We don't have that technology. All right, so let's talk about how do we want to break something like this down? This is how I look at conflict of what's going on. And some of this is going to do guesswork here because we don't have more information. And we can actually use the two of you if we want. But here's what we got to look at whenever it comes to fights is we want to look at what are the underlying things that we automatically bring into every single conversation. Because if we're not careful, what happens is we get so caught up on the surface level issue that we miss what's underneath the table. What we're bringing to the table, those kind of things.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:45]:
So one of the things I would encourage every couple to do, we can assist you in that is to know your personality and to know your attachment style. So your personality is gonna be how do I attend to the world, how do I pay attention? And then also what's really important to me. So it's basically where do I find safety? And so we've talked about this before. Head, heart, gut, right? All those things of if you're a head person, the idea of predictability is so important to you. You find safety in I know where my keys are going to be. Right, that's more heart driven. Now they find relationship, they find safety in the relationship and the consistency of what's going on. And then some of them are more gut driven, they find safety in action.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:30]:
So you can almost even begin to hear, I don't know, this is guesswork. Clearly you can almost begin to hear that maybe the husband here could be more head centric. So he's looking for the predictability. I put my keys in the same place every single time. This is me. This is me to a T. I put my keys there. Why? Because I know they're going to be there in an emergency.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:51]:
I want to know that they're there. I don't want to spend time looking for them. I never want to be in a situation where I don't have what I need to get done, what I want to get done. I want you to be able to depend upon me. And so how do I do that? I make things more certain in my life. Now he made mention here that in other areas he's not necessarily this way. So this may not be his exact personality, but to me he's sounding very possible. If you want to go enneagram number, he could be a six wing seven, seven wing six, that kind of thing.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:18]:
But more importantly, I think for me is maybe in a more head centric kind of concept. Whereas she sounds like she's worried about action. I got so much to do. It doesn't matter in the moment whose keys I take. The issue is I got to go. And so what is this? This is more gut driven, right? This could be Jenny and I to a T because so Jenny's a one, wing two. And so it is action. I got too many things to do.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:47]:
I can just grab your keys. Now 25 years in, that no longer happens because we've had those discussions of how much it drives me crazy. But I am. She will always know where my keys are, right?
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:58]:
I know them a little bit and she is. This one is a doer. She's a go getter. She is a.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:05]:
So that's the gut company owner.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:06]:
She gets things going and doing.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:10]:
He could be by the way. By the way it's one of two things. It's either gut or it could be a little bit of heart. So like it like a two on the enneagram. Now somebody that's bonding outward is that go getter get things done as well. So I'm going to tag her as either a one wing two or a two wing one.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:27]:
And you don't know enneagram enough to know what you're talking about. So I'm trying to think of the person. So when you say what do you. What do you speak my terms on?
Kevin Thompson [00:09:38]:
So you know the whole idea of head, heart, gut.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:40]:
We talked about this before.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:41]:
You just don't know what a one is.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:42]:
A one or two or seven.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:43]:
Generally a one.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:44]:
So a one's going to be thinking about Jenny think about somebody extremely successful does so many different things gut driven now inward focused. So in this situation with Jenny gut driven it's action keys are there. I'm taking the keys inward. She's not thinking about your keys necessarily. Considering the impact of how this might work out beyond me now A2 is going to be different. A2 actually going to be heart driven. Heart driven outward. So now what matters is outward.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:16]:
I have this thing I have to go do. So the fixation is on that, not on the relationship back with the husband. And so the keys are just the gateway to go make this happen. Because it's going to be uncaring if I don't accomplish, if I don't get the kids to school, if I don't go to this thing I've signed up for. And so it's just this very outward experience of what is taking place. And he's probably back over there again. Six, seven more head driven. I need certainty and you just removed the certainty from me.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:45]:
And now depending on now here's what this looks like. I think healthy relationship, strong attachments, all those kind of things. It's frustrating and funny if they're in a healthy place. This, it's probably a recurring theme. He might even get to a point where he ends up hiding a key that she doesn't even know about. That way when she takes. Yes, when she takes his key. Haha.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:10]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:10]:
I still got it right. And it's a great way to navigate good video. That kind of concept Instead, instead of trying to Force her into changing who she is. That's not necessarily going to happen. We'll leverage your certainty even more. Yeah, and then don't tell her that part. Right. This is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:29]:
Is that manipulation?
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:30]:
A good lie?
Kevin Thompson [00:11:31]:
No. No.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:31]:
It's good fights.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:32]:
Good luck. Yeah. Oh. Oh, that's manipulation. I mean, manipulation. I am literally hiding this to harm you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:41]:
Right? You're like, I know where the key is, and I'm not gonna.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:43]:
You're actually empowering her here.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:45]:
You tell her I have one hidden, so don't worry about it. Take whatever you need.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:48]:
Take whatever you need, and I've got it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:50]:
But then if I'm him, I'm like, she'll never learn. She'll never learn how to keep track of her stuff, and I'm always gonna be picking up the pieces. That's what I was doing.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:59]:
Yeah. And she may not.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:01]:
So then how do you live with that?
Kevin Thompson [00:12:02]:
But here's.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:03]:
And I say we make.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:04]:
Because I'm feeling frustrated already inside about this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:10]:
Yes. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:10]:
So that's a great point, Adrienne, is. So here's what happens Now. There are communications that take place of. Here's what this does to me. So what happens is we're going to assist. We're gonna take her. Let's say she's more heart driven. We're gonna bring her heart into having compassion for me.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:29]:
Let's say she's more gut driven. We're gonna see how that behavior actually limits my own action, agency, and activity. We're gonna help her see it from my side of. This is what it looks like to be on the other side of you here. Now, I understand at times it's gonna happen. So basically, what has to happen, he has to get more flexible. All right. This is gonna happen on occasion.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:49]:
This is why I love her. This is why things get done. If it were only just up to me, things wouldn't happen the way they do. This is great. She brings me out of my shell. More unpredictability in my life. This is great. Now she has to begin to go, okay, I need to see how my actions actually impact him.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:06]:
So don't forget this. Just because somebody has an outward attention to life doesn't mean that they can't have an inward view. At times, it means this is their primary thing. What do we need to do? We need to develop. So outward, inward, dyadic. Right. Outward, inward, relational. So there are times.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:23]:
I'm dyadic, you're dyadic. There are times in which I need to be very outward. Well, I can learn that there are other times I need to be very inward. I can learn that it doesn't come natural to me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:32]:
Got it.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:32]:
So both of them now have to begin to work on how can I begin to think about the other and see how this is impacting to some extent. But not only do you have some personality things that are going on here, you could also have some attachment issues that are taking place. And I don't know. But it's possible that he could have a little bit more of an anxious pathway. And so think about what's going on here. The blame's all gonna be on her. Right? You and I share this. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:59]:
Remember what we said previously, anytime we're thinking they need a change. Hang on, what about me? And it could be that she has a little bit more of an avoidant pathway, which is I'm going to keep myself so busy that I really never have to think about myself or him or anything that's going on here.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:17]:
Yeah, don't have the time.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:18]:
Yeah, I just don't. We got too much to do. Right. And so here's what I think. Whenever it comes to couples breaking down these fights and here's the way I do it with couples when they're in my office or whatever. On zoom it is this, what is your personality? Okay. Head, heart, gut, inward, outward, dyadic, all those kind of things. Let's see what you're bringing today and what's really going to trigger you.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:39]:
Because here I think it's obvious. He is finding safety in certainty, she is finding safety in action. Great. We got to value those two things. But we have to recognize that that's important to our spouse. How do we help them with that? Because we're not going to change that underlying need that's there. There's nothing wrong with it. Let's lean into it and then let's look.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:00]:
So we look at personality, then let's look at attachment. So personality you could sometimes frame in a little bit more positive way. Here's what I need. Attachment could be a little bit more negative. Here's the non secure ways I'm dealing with this. That really can begin to change. And so it could be that instead of seeing what role he plays in this a little bit, I don't know, this sounds a little one sided. I mean, you're telling your own story.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:26]:
On his side, of course.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:28]:
Right. I would be interested to hear what she thinks.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:31]:
But was there any element, remind me, was there any element in the story which he's saying, hey, here's what I do wrong. Here's what I need to change. Here's what I.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:38]:
No, but he did say he was like kind. He said I am more scattered normally. So when I've created this spot so I know where my keys are.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:47]:
Yeah, yeah. Okay. But that's still. Look at what I've done. In other words. And I'm not blaming him in any way. Right. This is Yalls friend.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:54]:
I don't know who it is, but I'm not blaming him in any way. But what I am saying is if somebody with a more anxious pathway tells the story, the story is generally going to be hey, here's what they're doing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:07]:
Not what I'm doing.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:08]:
They need to change instead of hey, here's what I'm. So a secure pathway would be hey, here's the situation. They're doing this. I can see how I'm doing this. And what contributes to that. Help us. A more anxious pathway really is help us. And what they really mean is help them help that person change.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:27]:
Because if they'll change, then I'm.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:28]:
Then we're happy.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:30]:
Whereas avoidant is. Then in this kind of moment is going to be much more. I don't even see the problem.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:36]:
Yeah, let's just. Let's just move forward. I have many thoughts as you continue to talk. Some about them, some about just general one. One question I want you to get to on this type of pairing of personalities and attachments is what other common problems could arise in this relationship. But then also I know his sarcastic tone.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:58]:
He.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:59]:
He will. He will make fun of himself a little bit of the journey. Right. He typically is the one at. He would rather his expense than her expense. He would obviously like try to defend her in it. So some of this is a joke. It's on Instagram.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:15]:
It's. But it's a little bit true.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:16]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:18]:
But I'm more curious on how. How do you get into a secure form of that attachment for him? For those guys or girls that are anxious about that? Because my third thought is the prehab version of this thing. Right. So it's like why would I'm excited to fight her?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:17:40]:
Like with our words, not with words.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:43]:
Because we're secure.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:44]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:45]:
Okay. So now if I'm excited to fight her because we're secure, I know that we're going to improve our marriage. That's going to grow. But now I'm fearful of the person. Here I go again. Of worrying about the other person. Is their security enough to deal with the problem? If it isn't, should they deal with the problem.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:05]:
And it so sounds like here. And I don't know, we're reading a lot into it really sounds like here. This is a good couple.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:11]:
Great.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:12]:
They're in great place. So they have created that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:14]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:14]:
Now, what's giving me evidence of that, in my opinion, is there is a joking element to this. There is a here we go again. But not. I'm going to strangle her.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:23]:
Correct.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:24]:
It is. This is what we do. So that it sounds like there's a really healthy aspect that's going on here. Then you can even sense it in the midst. Whenever we compare this to other things that we have received, other comments that we get when people text into marriage, the 56316, that kind of thing. So the good news is they've created that. So how do you create that? This is. How do we create the emotional connection with.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:45]:
Are we creating space for one another? Are we seeing each other? Are we revealing the hearts of each other? Have we built trust and respect and vulnerability? Are we friends, partners and lovers? I mean, these are the things that are really being.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:56]:
They sound like they're friends.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:58]:
They are friends.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:58]:
They can joke. She's got 18 purses, like, and they.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:02]:
Ironically, they're great partners. So they do a ton. He does some ministry. She's in ministry. They're both in business together. These guys are top notch.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:12]:
You can hear it. You can hear it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:13]:
Which is the boat with the lover.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:14]:
Part, which I hope. Well, all the best. Hey, we have a call in now. So you can hear all that. And so think about this. If you're driving around the road listening to this or you've tuned into YouTube, consider this. If this issue happened in your relationship, would it be a funny thing that actually kind of brings you together, or would it be the start of what's going to be a fight for the next 24 hours? Because here's what happens. It's never about the keys.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:43]:
No, here's where this goes. Healthy relationship keys, they're gone. Oh, my goodness. It stays with the keys. And then it goes into the connection we have. I love you. I appreciate you. This downside of what it's like to be on the other side of you, it's life.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:58]:
We'll figure it out. Unhealthy relationship keys. Well, I can't fight about keys for that long because it's not the emotion I have within me and the topic that is actually being presented are not in sync. So I have to then take this. I have to pivot to a place that Is more significant. That matches my emotion. And so I go from the keys to, well, you never.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:24]:
Or you don't do enough. I'm doing all of this stuff.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:26]:
You don't care about me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:28]:
I'm a go getter.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:29]:
That's exactly right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:29]:
You know, maybe if you did more.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:30]:
Stuff, why don't you catch up? Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:33]:
Maybe this could be Adrienne's part in this whole thing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:35]:
Yeah. I will take the fight to the next level.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:37]:
You wanna go? Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:38]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:39]:
But that's exactly what I was thinking when the scenario was brought. I was like, oh, I see where this could go really bad. Because she's really going. She might feel like he's not keeping up or, you know. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:50]:
And then take the other side of that. Take the other side of that for him. Although this is reversed a little bit now.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:55]:
Situation.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:55]:
I just am very dyadic.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:56]:
So very well done. Yeah, There I am. So. So what could he be feeling in this moment?
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:01]:
Adrienne. I like it.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:04]:
I like how Adrienne's going to take both sides of this debate.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:06]:
I know her side. I know that there'll be times in my mind, my human flesh mind of sin and not a good marriage is. Why can't you keep up? Come on, we're doing this, we're doing that. Let's go. And then when you say, shut up. I am doing my part for us. I'm like, oh, yeah, right. She actually is keeping up far more than I see.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:27]:
But I'm so selfishly thinking about my going, getting. Yeah, right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:31]:
That or he's like. He's gonna get more frustrated at the fact that she is not as organized as him.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:38]:
Yes. Yes. He could feel taken advantage of. He could feel unseen.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:42]:
I'm very responsible with my time. And maybe it doesn't look as messy as yours, but I've actually got it under control.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:48]:
Can't we be adults here?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:49]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:50]:
Like. Like this is something. I mean, he could feel this. I'm not saying this is the accurate thing. Right. I don't expect my children to put my stuff back to where they got them.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:57]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:58]:
But.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:21:59]:
Exactly.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:59]:
I expect you to.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:00]:
I know. Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:01]:
So he can feel like she doesn't really care about me. She doesn't respect who I am. And notice this, this is kind of interesting. Is because she's up there in that kind of agency area. She might be heart, might be head, might be gut, but he can actually feel like his gut's being attacked. His agency's being attacked. I'm trying to take care of myself. It doesn't come Naturally to me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:23]:
But I'm working hard. I'm working hard.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:25]:
And now you're not partnering with me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:26]:
You're not seeing the efforts I've made already.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:29]:
So the partnership could begin. Could deteriorate. It's not happening here.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:33]:
No.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:33]:
This is what they're getting. Right. The partnership in an unhealthy relationship could begin to deteriorate. That is going to ebb into the friendship, which will eventually begin to hurt the bedroom. Yeah. And what's going on?
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:44]:
How about this? Another topic. Finances. So now you have a conservative mindset of safety, savings, saving, savings. You've got a mindset of going, I'm doing. And, like, I'm trying to relate all these fights, because they're very similar.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:57]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:58]:
And it's like, you didn't respect our savings. What's going on here? Well, no, we're doing this, we're doing that. Trust me.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:04]:
Like, well, and here's. Here's where that could go as well. And it doesn't sound like it's happening here.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:09]:
No.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:09]:
But notice the difference between a healthy routine and habit to give some predictability to life and rigidity. Yes, he could. He's not happening here. But a personality like this could then get into a rigidity that then, oh, you got to play by the rules. Here's exactly how everything has to be. All my safety is built around these rules that I've created. So instead of kind of Dan Siegel's idea of the river, the flow of energy, where we're flexible and adaptable, stable.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:46]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:47]:
So his putting the keys there every time could lead to a stability. And then he recognized sometimes it won't happen. That's adaptable and flexible. But rigidity is. You take those keys, ball game, the fight is on. Then that goes into every area of, if you spend. I'm looking at how much you're spending at Starbucks. And if you spend one dime over.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:08]:
It's a form of ocd, too.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:10]:
I was wondering if it can be.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:12]:
Can it develop into that?
Kevin Thompson [00:24:14]:
It can be, but then it can also just be a concept. Maybe it's almost a relational ocd. I don't know if that exists or not.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:20]:
Let's coin that, too.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:21]:
We need Stephanie Cain on here to tell us where we're going. But it is. This idea of this rigidity is a coping mechanism that flows from an unhealthiness in life. And so I can go this way very quickly, really shocking you with the button.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:39]:
Comb over.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:41]:
Did she say comb over? But doesn't it come over, imply, like, I'm covering.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:47]:
Yeah, but you've, like, combed it to the side.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:48]:
Yes. It's a part.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:51]:
A parting over.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:52]:
It's a parting, but it's not a comb over yet. Like, I had to pull.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:56]:
I see what you mean. There's no, like, you're not covering anything.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:59]:
We're on that way.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:00]:
What are you covering up?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:02]:
Let's unbutton the shirt and get into it.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:04]:
So think about what.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:06]:
Ding, ding, ding. Next fight.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:08]:
I'm so rigid. There's a shirt on underneath. Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:12]:
Let's dive in.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:12]:
Dan Siegel is going to talk about rigidity and chaos. Are these two edges of the river that we want to stay out of. That whenever we're healthy, we're flexible, we're adaptable, we're coherent, we're energized, we're stable. This is what a healthy relationship looks like. Whenever we're unhealthy, we each either go to a rigidity. What are the rules? I'll follow the rules. We have to follow the rules. That's where we find safety.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:39]:
Or it's just all out chaos. You can hear here that if they were to go negative, he would be rigid, she would be chaotic, and that would be disaster. But instead, I think what's happening here. They've created these healthy attachments, which now allows his rigidity actually gets into a healthy spot of predictability. Her chaos gets into a healthy spot of action and activity. And now they can wed that together in a beautiful way. But notice there's still gonna be these little rubs.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:08]:
Oh, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:09]:
These frictions of.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:10]:
It's still not 18 purses.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:11]:
It's still not.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:12]:
Yeah, 18 purse. Like, that's where my mind goes on his personality versus why do we have 18 purses? Let's be a little bit more organized, conservative, maybe.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:21]:
Yeah, maybe.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:21]:
You know, I'm just wondering.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:23]:
Notice even this. Notice the difference here of a healthy 18 purses in that financially, we're fine. Everything's great. I wouldn't have more than one. She has 18. It's a playful, funny thing we can come back to versus a passive aggressive. Our finances are not spending all our.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:26:42]:
Money on our purses.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:43]:
But I can't actually say that. I can't have an actual honest conversation in which I'm going to assert this opinion that I have that, hey, we shouldn't spend money that way. So I'm gonna be over here chirping in the background, pretending like it's okay. Right. Which ironically, in that moment, that could show that he might have a little bit more Avoidant tendency. So I'm going to joke about it instead of actually deal with it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:06]:
Ooh, that's good too.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:08]:
And so notice how all these things, if we're not very careful, there's a healthy way to do them and an unhealthy way to do them. So we can quickly justify what we're doing as. No. Oh, I'm just laughing. I'm just not that big a deal. What's really going on underneath the surface. Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:22]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:22]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:23]:
Do we have time for another fight?
Kevin Thompson [00:27:24]:
No. No. We don't know. We don't. We're. We're still in this one.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:29]:
But then we got.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:29]:
I still got more of this. I like how Adrienne wants to check out of the fight. I know the next episode she likes. We'll do more than. I love drama. So I got a couple of things. One, let's look at some practical ways of how this couple can go about it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:45]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:45]:
Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:46]:
She. She solved it in her head, so she's good.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:49]:
Yeah, I already know. I already can picture. He's. She's, like, walking out the door, and he's like, here's your keys. And, like, she goes. And they're like.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:56]:
And they're laughing. She's going. She's. Haha.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:58]:
And he's like, oh, honey, you're so funny with your 18 purses.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:01]:
Clean up. And he also said that we're left out, so there's like, can you put away your purses? I love this guy. And I know that it's all in good fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:10]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:28:10]:
But I'm in it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:11]:
Let's do it.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:12]:
So one thing they've already done. Right. Right. Is that they. They've created humor in this situation. Not literally, I don't think. Not passive aggressive criticism, but this idea of, look, we're different people, we have different perspectives. Life is gonna have these things.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:28]:
If you do not have places of humor in your relationship, very important that both people find it humorous. So it can't be one of these things. Let me take you back to my childhood. We can't use this illustration anymore because the Cosby show, we can't use this. But if you remember Cliff's parents, there was one story that he would always tell, and he told it for all these years, and it finally came out. She's hated it for 60 years that he's been telling this story, and the whole episode is finally the revelation that's been hidden all these years. Well, why didn't you tell him 60 years ago? So it cannot be. He jokes about this.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:08]:
She Actually is taking it personally and they're not communicating about it. It has to be the shared space of, hey, we're different people. This isn't a moral issue. It's not right or wrong. Hey, this is the downside of being married to me. And the downside of being married to you is how much you care about this. But there's playfulness in this. They've done that.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:25]:
We've created a playfulness that is there. There's a very practical aspect of what we could actually do here as well, which is she can begin to learn from him. Oh, here's how I don't lose my key if I can begin to get in this habit. And so what if we created this kind of mutual spot that things just go. And whenever you walk in, this is where you place the keys. This is where you place the phone. This is where the shoes always are. And so now, granted, times.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:53]:
There are gonna be times which is not there. But literally, if he is later in the house and he sees her keys, he laughs, he picks them up, and he takes them back to the spot.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:03]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:03]:
And she. She isn't there, then going, oh, my goodness, you move my keys. No, no, no, it's not that. It is. No. We. We put them back into our place.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:10]:
Training on that point. Because I now know how she would feel on the other side of that. I feel so less stressful in the mornings.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:18]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:19]:
Because I go and I walk out and boop. I get my keys and I'm on. My wallet is right there.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:24]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:25]:
And it's like, I would have just put it on the countertop probably once in a while. Upstairs. Once in a while.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:30]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:31]:
And then be like, kids, can you just please help me find my wallet? Dad's got to get going. It's also creating stress in the home. Right. Which you've done a great job.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:39]:
Oh, thank you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:40]:
And you are so excited when you clean those cupboards.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:44]:
But notice the. Notice just the practical way right there. We can begin to lessen. Instead of just allowing this to go. In other words, this really became an issue for the couple. Instead of allowing it. What's a very practical way, we can just kind of try to solve this in some way. And then I think a third aspect within this.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:02]:
So they've already got humor. Let's do a practical response here then. Let's begin to appreciate the difference in the personalities that he now is bringing this predictability. She's bringing this work and accessibility of what's going on. Let's leverage that now for our own well being and recognize this really is one of our strengths here. Now it's going to have some downsides to it. Again, we're different people, but let's lean into this and to appreciate who this is about each other. It's funny to me that I'm to a place now with Jenny where there are times in which she'll say something or not do something or whatever.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:41]:
And my first thought is, oh, man, I wish. And then it hits me. No, no, no, no. That's the downside of all the good side. And I appreciate the good side so much more than just this little negative thing here of I wish she liked golf. You know, one of those kind of things. Who cares in comparison to all the greatness that is out there. And to view that picture of Jenny is bringing to me action.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:06]:
We are getting things done. I'm getting far more done with her. I am bringing to her some ease, some predictability that she would not maybe have on her own. Let's enjoy that element of who we actually are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:19]:
And when you're only from my perspective, but like when you're a go getter, I'm gonna go do a bunch of things. When the biggest thing that Adrienne's ever said to me was when we came down here and she was praying, she heard from God. Remember this was like, I am supposed to support you and I'm good with that. That was the most freeing thing for me because of the safety and security I had underneath of taking these risks and going for it. Even as a risk taker, sometimes we get scared and fearful of it and we have doubts. To know that the partner is stable and secure. That helped me big time. Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:54]:
So it's like the go getter.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:56]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:57]:
You're good and you can work hard and all these things, but don't take for granted the stability that the spouse can bring as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:04]:
Adrienne, what would be a takeaway for you from this fight?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:08]:
I'm enjoying the fights. That's my takeaway. I want to do more and I want to fight some more.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:14]:
So let's fight.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:17]:
Let's close with kind of this basic concept. First of all, if people want to send their fights in, they can text marriage to 56316. They can go to our life. DraneNeufeld. Yep.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:27]:
On Instagram, Adrienne Neufeld. The two ends in Adrienne. And you can either DM us or if we have a story, we'll put a story with like one of those question boxes. We'll do it every so often. So we can get more fights going.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:43]:
Yeah, yeah. So let's, let's close with this thought. Every couple has a keys story.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:48]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:49]:
Right. But it's not really about the keys. It's about what the keys represent. And so for one, it was the idea of a missing key, says, you can't count on me. For the other, the frustration was, you're always trying to control me, but that's not it. But whenever that's the perspective, then suddenly a $5 keychain becomes a 15 minute fight. All because of what's going on underneath the table. But here's the thing.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:13]:
It's not ultimately about finding the keys. It's about finding each other. How can we connect now in the midst of what's going on? And whenever we can begin to change from lecturing each other to now laughing about the scenario, finding a system that actually solves the problem in some way, then the next thing you know, we may not have found the keys, but we have found love. And then this fight becomes transformative. And you know what happens whenever we begin to transform fights?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:39]:
I have a guess.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:40]:
What is it?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:40]:
We might change the odds.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:42]:
We'll see you next time.