Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:00]:
Okay, let me ask you a question. Have you ever wanted closeness when the relationship itself felt anything but close? One of you thought sex could bring you back together, and the other thought, how can you want me when we haven't fixed anything? Today's Fight Club isn't about sex. It's about repair, safety, and two people reaching for connection in completely different ways. If you ever thought we can't skip the hard part, or why won't you let this bring us back together? This one's for you.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:30]:
There we go. Hey. Welcome, everybody. Back to change the odds for marriage and family were never meant to be a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson. Blaine and Adrienne Neufeld. Here we are. Wow.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:38]:
They don't know this, but the fifth take, I took the first four couldn't read it.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:41]:
Didn't work.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:41]:
Adrienne, no.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:42]:
This is all live. What are you talking about? Sorry. Hey, you know what's funny is. So here where we are at Bayside, is we do this morning refuel, devotional every morning.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:50]:
We love it.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:51]:
You know, there's. You know, there are some people who think we come in and shoot that live.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:56]:
Really?
Kevin Thompson [00:00:56]:
No, absolutely. I'll see somebody. I'll be like, hey, man. You know, they'll say, man, it was great this morning. I'm like, oh, thanks. And they're like, man, you're wearing something different now. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I shot that, like, three weeks ago, and I shot eight at a time.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:08]:
So did you do it today?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:10]:
Am I on refuel today? I don't know.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:13]:
Okay, that's the other thing. You're like, oh, what did I say?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:15]:
Yeah. Yeah, I might actually be.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:17]:
It was good, though.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:17]:
Oh, really?
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:18]:
It was really good.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:20]:
Led you closer to Jesus. All right, so we got another. We're back with Fight Club. So here we are. So this one on intimacy. I love it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:27]:
And my specialty.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:29]:
Oh, really? Yes. A relationship that struggles. Is that what your specialty is here? Because this is what we're talking about today. So, Adrienne. All right, we got somebody. So if you want to write in your fight, we'd love to hear it on Instagram. You can share it. You can also go to changetheods.com there's a place there.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:43]:
Any way you can get your. We're looking for conflict. Any way you can get your conflict to us.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:48]:
People call me, and I just keep writing down notes as they tell me their fights. So they don't even know it.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:53]:
There you go. How about that? All right, Adrienne, what do we got?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:55]:
Okay. Hey, Fight Club. My Husband and I have been struggling for months. I think I started that a little too positive. Hey, fight club. My husband and I have been struggling for months. We argue a lot. Things feel tense, and there are a lot of unresolved issues.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:10]:
Valentine's Day is approaching, isn't it? And he's going to want sex. Like that would somehow fix things or bring us closer. I know I'm probably going to feel offended, hurt, almost, you know, angry that he thinks we can just jump to that. When the relationship feels broken, when I say no, he gets upset, like I'm rejecting him completely. I often feel pressured. He feels unwanted. I'm an enneagram one within an avoidant attachment style. He's an enneagram six with.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:43]:
With anxious attachment. Help us because we're completely missing each other.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:47]:
Oh, here we go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:48]:
Shoot.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:50]:
They can't be the only ones either.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:51]:
No, by no means. So here's what I love about this one. This is what makes this a little bit easier for me, is she's a one, he's a six. This is me and Jenny.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:59]:
Oh, really?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:00]:
So immediately.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:01]:
So Jenny, Jenny.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:03]:
Jenny. We're going to call her.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:05]:
Call her. Do you all relate to this argument at all?
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:08]:
We have or had or have or.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:11]:
Do or might tomorrow. Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:12]:
I'm not sure.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:13]:
No, no, I don't. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, we do.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:16]:
Do tell.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:16]:
We do. And I think more so in the past. We've worked through a lot of things. We communicate about our needs, but this was a big problem for us for.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:25]:
The first, what, three years, four years? Five?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:28]:
10? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:30]:
Is that common?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:31]:
100.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:31]:
Really?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:32]:
I. I was speaking last night to a group of people and. And I didn't even plan this, but just said, Jenny and I have been married 25 years and this issue for the first 10th, for the first decade. So that is a very common thing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:43]:
That's where my mind went.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:44]:
Which by no means do we want to in any way, if you're experiencing that, to just say, oh, it'll get better, we'll get out of it. Right. But it also should hopefully show. Don't be surprised if that first decade, if there aren't things to learn and struggles and if you can find a way to learn new skills, push through it, things can be radically different.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:04]:
Yeah. And just for us, it would have been far more of the expectation of marriage too, which we've talked about in the past is like coming in, you assume that this is on the table whenever. Yeah, all the time.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:17]:
It's like sometimes literally on the table. Yes, Kevin.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:21]:
Nice.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:23]:
I'm buttoning a button.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:25]:
But at the same time, that was probably my mistake. And if I saw my side of it, what would your mistake be?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:34]:
Withholding.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:35]:
Oh, withholding, as in like intimacy. But it was like a reward or like you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:39]:
No, it was more like I. I just. The vulnerability aspect was really hard for me to push.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:45]:
Would you say you used it as a weapon, Withholding?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:48]:
Yeah. In my immaturity, probably.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:51]:
I'm sure I wire with it.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:53]:
Kevin.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:53]:
I didn't see that. Not. Not intentionally, though I think some.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:57]:
Subconsciously. Subconsciously.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:59]:
I think that's what happens here, is it's not like we are intentionally going here. We're going to do this in a negative way. Here's what this looks like. It's a defense mechanism, for sure.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:07]:
Yes, that's what it is.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:08]:
We're protecting ourselves.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:09]:
Kevin, you're smart.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:10]:
So let's look at other people's relationships, not mine. All right, so let's look at one of the things we always want to do here. Let's take this fight begin to look at. What do we think are the emotions underneath the table? So they have presented now the above the table issues. Valentine's Day is coming. Intimacy, the expectations, all those things. And she actually did a good job in the communication to us. Hopefully she does this with her husband as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:32]:
Talking about the pressure, the unwanted. Right. So you can sense right now she's feeling a sense of resentment that the relationship isn't where it needs to be. Notice one thing that's interesting here. She's having a fight already in her head.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:47]:
It hasn't even happened.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:48]:
He may not even know. He may not even know he's in a fight.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:51]:
He's excited for Valentine's Day.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:54]:
Sex is on the table.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:55]:
She's already.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:57]:
And so one thing that could be happening here too is he might be looking at this holiday as man, the relationship has been bad, but at least we got this holiday. But is it a holiday we'll reconnect? Well, that's a whole different thing. I don't know. Y' all are Canadians. You take holidays for everything. And so interesting jab. Wow. Shots fired right there.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:15]:
Is that a bad thing? Heaven forbid. We have work, life, balance.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:19]:
Sorry. We're happier people.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:22]:
Just wait till you become the 51st state. Let's see what happens. So she has resentment. Her guard is up. You can already tell the guard is there. There's a disappointment. And she is already beginning to emotionally shut down. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:37]:
And he in all likely we don't have his side of it, but probably especially being a six and where he is, he's afraid. He already feels rejected. There's an insecurity. He longs for this closeness and connection. And so think about how they're approaching this coming day now in two radically different ways. That she's thinking, why would I ever do this? And he in all likelihood is thinking, if we can't even do this, how bad are we? And so many times, what will happen? And let's not. We don't have to get too gender stereotypical because it can switch by genders. But it's not uncommon here.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:10]:
What's happening here is for the woman, intimacy is the highest goal. We have to work our way up. We have to deserve and scaffold our way up this intimacy for it to be real. For men many times and others, I mean, sometimes it's the woman as well. Intimacy is the low bar. If we can't even have sex, our relationship is horrible. So those are two radically different expectations. All right, so let's look at what's going on.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:37]:
Personality. So we're going to look at their lead style. Then we'll look at their love style, how it impacts. So lead style, again, she's a one, right? So think about agency is her primary focus. She's going to have an inward attention to the world. Not surprising that she's having this fight inside her own head. Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:53]:
Agency is like control.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:54]:
Agency is control of your own life. Right. Your own bodily decisions. I mean, all those kind of things. I don't want in any way to feel encroached upon as opposed to bonding. Whereas relationship or certainty. So he's going to look at certainty. So it's not surprising here, Sex, intimacy, the coming up of Valentine's Day, that there's some certainty to that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:15]:
So no one's goal is bonding in this relationship.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:18]:
No, it doesn't sound like that's not going to be the ultimate goal. Now he is going to have because he's going to have a dyadic view. Remember what that means, that relational view. He's going to be the one that's bringing the relational side to that. Now, her being a one, she's going to, depending on what her side number is, she's going to lean a little bit so she can be gut driven, but a little bit closer to the heart. He's going to be certainty. But then that viewpoint of being able to see other people is going to bring the relational flair into this. But nobody's being led by their heart.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:49]:
I think that's going to be an important part that you're bringing up. I think that's brilliant to see that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:53]:
Good job, babe.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:54]:
Thank you.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:55]:
Look at you growing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:57]:
Using my heart.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:58]:
So notice what she brings to the table. Right. Gut driven action. I mean, this is Jenny action. High integrity, responsibility. A desire for things to be right. Sometimes the downside of a one can be you actually have to earn the fun. So like with Jenny, she has to think, if I get my work done, I'm going to go out and take a hike.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:19]:
And I'm over there going, why don't you go take a hike and then maybe you'll get your work done.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:23]:
Why don't you take a hike, babe?
Kevin Thompson [00:09:25]:
Yes. Put that in your Valentine's Day card at the table. But she feels like you have to earn what's going on. And so now notice this. She feels that for herself. She can sometimes place that upon other people.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:37]:
So what does intimacy look like for someone like that? Outside of sex? Like, outside, like, you know what I'm saying?
Kevin Thompson [00:09:43]:
Like, there's.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:44]:
There's times where you have to get.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:46]:
All your chores done and then.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:47]:
Yes, right. And then there's time for end of the day quality.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:50]:
Or what's it called? Something works.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:52]:
It can love Language.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:53]:
I know you don't like.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:54]:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. But what are we doing works. What podcast are you on right now?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:59]:
He's a little under the weather.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:02]:
I've taken some medicine.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:04]:
Language. What the world? That's not friend.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:06]:
Part quality time.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:08]:
Yeah, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:08]:
No, no, no. Just service. Service.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:11]:
Okay, yeah. Oh, absolutely.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:12]:
So thank you.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:13]:
Absolutely.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:13]:
Thank you for getting there. Guys, I'm playing above the rim here. No, that's exactly. So it's like for someone like that, it would matter that you're doing. Because I'm already ahead of you guys. I'm thinking of the guy as the guy figuring out your spouse, which is an important thing to do to know what is her level of those boxes of intimacy.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:33]:
So, yes, she has to earn the right. He has to earn the right toward her. It tends to be the end of the day. So it's the last thing. The downside of this can be. It's always the last thing. The least amount of energy because there's such a responsibility. She has to go take care of everything.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:50]:
And until those boxes are checked, she's gonna have a very difficult time mentally getting to this place. And in this. Go ahead.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:57]:
Well, I was just going to say I feel like it's not even ones. It's kind of like moms in general. Because I'm not really. I'm not a one.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:04]:
No, but you're close to it, so.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:07]:
But I can relate because it's like, well, I have to make lunches. I have to like, there's like. You can't. You can't shift your brain until it's like clear.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:16]:
Yeah. So you're. You're agency driven as well as a nine. But. Yeah. And you're probably a nine. WI1 is my guess. I could be wrong, but.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:23]:
So if you're going to lean one way or the other, I feel like you lean a little bit more toward a 1 than an 8. So you're going to be able to relate to this a little bit, even though you're not exactly aligned with what's going on. But.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:32]:
But many moms will relate.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:33]:
Many moms, no doubt. Many good moms.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:35]:
Great will. Amazing moms, Tremendous moms are great.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:39]:
Yes. So she's bringing all this positive responsibility. Ones are great. I mean, they literally.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:45]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:45]:
Friends. I bet you think ones are great. So here's what he's bringing to the table. He is this loyalist, right. And commitment. He's emotionally invested again. He can see what's going on inside of her better than she is aware of what's going on inside of him. And so he'll be kind of running both of what those things look like.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:03]:
So there's superpowers within this that they can really have a very strong relationship kind of rooted in trust. They have a bond now that values safety and closeness. Generally speaking, just any two healthy numbers are really strong together. I could be wrong. I feel like this combination of she's a one, he's a six is kind of an easier marriage. Now maybe I'm reading my own story into this, but basically Jenny wants to improve everything. I'm open to be improved. What do we need? And I'm just the loyalist.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:33]:
Just, hey, as long as you're faithful to me and we're together, I'm totally happy.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:37]:
Your box is still.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:37]:
Everything's going on.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:38]:
Yeah, totally good. Interesting.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:40]:
But there are shadow sides. And now I'm not talking about me and Jenny by any means. Clearly this other couple. So her mindset is going to be, look, we can't do this until we're fixed. We can't. Nothing can really happen. So she's saying that. Yeah, she's thinking this.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:55]:
I would say there's no emotional connection. So how would I give you myself essentially?
Kevin Thompson [00:13:00]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And he's thinking, how could we get fixed if we're not Close. Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:06]:
Oh my gosh. It's so opposite.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:07]:
No, that's exactly.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:08]:
That's what makes it hard.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:09]:
That's what makes it difficult. Also what makes it good. Because if they can now lean into each other and realize that it's not that they're both wrong, it's actually that they're both right. And if they can lean into each other, they can actually leverage that for their well being and he can begin to recognize and this is going to be difficult for her. We need to get to work on this to even have her the mindset and she needs to recognize it does actually doesn't have to be perfect for me to begin to get into this.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:34]:
So the fight isn't really about sex, is it? No, it's deeper than that.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:37]:
It is. It's the emotions that are underneath the table.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:40]:
Who's this lady at the table to make sure she is fully engaged? Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:44]:
She's leaning in her oneness is what she's doing. Right. She stepped outside the nine, leaning into the one agency.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:50]:
I want control of the spirit and I like it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:53]:
Kevin, if you could.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:57]:
So a one and the shadow side here is a one will withdraw in order to protect herself and a six will pursue to feel secure. Especially notice that now we're gonna add in the love style. So those are just basic personalities. So now whenever you get into. He's anxious has an anxious pathway here. She has a more avoidant pathway. Now actually you take these lead styles of the one and the six and they're going to kind of be doubled down. So if she could have this.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:28]:
Everything I just said is true. But if she were more anxiously attached, it would look a little bit different of how she would express it here. But her idea has to be perfect. And until it's perfect, I'm not doing anything. Now with an avoidant attachment that's going to be doubled that she's stepping out of this. Right. Notice I think this is what's causing the fight in her head already. She's already trying to avoid the intimacy that she feels is coming her way and she's nervous about it.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:56]:
And he is probably panicked at this moment sensing something's up. And he has a sense of excitement because he thinks Valentine's Day is going to force this to happen in some way. And he's terrified that it's not. Not.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:08]:
This is where society has exploit, exploited the chaser. So you're an anxious chaser. Not you. This guy.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:15]:
No, me too.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:16]:
Right, you too.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:16]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:17]:
So you go and buy more gifts for Your spouse in order to get her. I know. You don't. You're mature. Right. But that's. That's. That could be a down.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:26]:
Sometimes you can do that out of anxious attachment. So as Valentine's Day is coming up for our listeners, somebody could do that out of anxious attachment. I'm going to buy your love.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:33]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:33]:
Somebody can actually do that out of avoidant attachment as well, which is. I'm going to buy my way out of all the things I've failed to distract you to do so far. Distracted. Yes. Oh, so we're going to. Instead of having the real conversation here. So let's say he had avoidant attachment. He doesn't.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:46]:
Let's say he had avoidant and she was anxious. The way that could express in him right now is, oh, we're extremely disconnected. I'm going to avoid the emotional vulnerability of that conversation, and I'm going to bombard her with gifts to now force her to have this physical connection which will kind of sate my need for connection without ever making me emotionally vulnerable.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:10]:
Wow, that's deep. That is deep because so many. I have met many people where she, let's say, likes gifts. He tries to fill that need with gifts, and that doesn't solve the problem whatsoever.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:21]:
And then he's like, I've given you everything you wanted, and it's still not enough.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:25]:
And she's saying, no, I just want to want something else.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:28]:
Yes. It could be. In part, it could be his avoidant attachment there.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:32]:
That is interesting.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:33]:
Is trying to purchase something that only vulnerability can pay for, and he's not willing to pay that price.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:40]:
I gotta say, vulnerability is the theme of 2026. I can.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:44]:
Oh, is that gonna be your word?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:46]:
Yeah, because I. Well, anyways, it's not about me, but I. Yeah. Vulnerability is key in a lot of areas.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:51]:
So I know you have friends, partners, and lovers memorized. So what is the equation? The math equation? Blank plus blank equals vulnerability.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:59]:
What is it like our son, who's studying for his science test this morning, being like, I don't know anything. Wait, what was the question?
Kevin Thompson [00:17:06]:
It's trust.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:17:08]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:08]:
Plus respect equals vulnerability. Will lead to vulnerability. Yes. So friendship built on trust, partnership built on respect, and some C built on vulnerability. Y' all have that memorized? No.
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:19]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:19]:
Y' all know we're going back to books long ago. We've written new ones since. Okay. So let's look at how would secure attachment change this? And then we'll make a couple suggestions of maybe how they can grow. So let's say both of them were secure. All right? So she would recognize, hey, Valentine's Day is approaching, right? I feel disconnected. A secure approach. Now she's going to take that which is under the table and she's going to express it on top of the table.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:44]:
She's going to go to him and say, she will. Yes, she will. Then she does it, right. Wow, look at you guys. Blaine's over there. I take one day off. I love it. So she is going to now try to do this emotional repair.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:01]:
So she's going to come to him and say, look, I feel disconnected right now and Valentine's Day is coming and look, we're going to want to have an intimate moment. And I get that, but I just don't feel like I'm there right now. And let's have a discussion now. And notice. Notice it's not blame. It's not. Here's what you're doing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:18]:
Taking ownership.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:18]:
No, that's exactly. It's like we said a couple weeks ago, right? It's the idea of don't express the complaint, express the attachment need. And her attachment need here is, I feel disconnected from you, so, hey, honey, I feel disconnected, right? And so if he has a secure attachment now here's the problem in his anxious attachment, his temptation in that moment is going to be to panic and it's going to create all this emotional turmoil and the temptation will become to become very defensive. So based on their primary attachments here she is going to have this avoidance. She's going to have this fight in her head, not with him. And it's going to create all this tension. It's going to cause him to panic at what's going on. If she will show a secure attachment and to bring this tension out into the open and lay it on the table, he's going to be tempted to get defensive.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:05]:
A secure approach for him would is all right, I'm not going to be defensive, honey. What is that like?
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:11]:
Why is he defensive? Because he's not sure if he's filled all the boxes.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:15]:
Because the anxious attachment within him is going to be. Whenever she communicates her attachment need, he's going to feel attacked and think about anxious attachment. The great fear is abandonment. Oh, if I failed you, you're leaving me.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:29]:
I got it.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:30]:
So a secure approach is, of course I fail at times. You're communicating that I can get better. A non secure approach is, oh, my goodness, failure.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:39]:
This is chaos.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:40]:
This is chaos. It might be over.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:41]:
I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it?
Kevin Thompson [00:19:42]:
Yeah. So let's say his anxious attachment comes from, in all likelihood, times in his childhood where he had needs and they went unmet. He felt abandoned. So now her just simply communicating her needs is going to create within him a tension that he's going to feel abandoned. He has to recognize it and then ignore it and lean in. And instead of getting defensive, he needs to now welcome more of her heart out onto the top table.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:06]:
I was going to say, it's like, to me, that mindset is like, oh, good, here's an opportunity for me because.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:13]:
You have secure attachment.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:14]:
Oh, okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:15]:
Yeah. Thanks, guys.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:16]:
That's why you don't even know what the guys think.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:18]:
Because I was like, blaine's over here. Like, what? What's this idiot doing?
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:22]:
I just want to know what's in her head. Then I can solve the problem I like to fix.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:27]:
And it's also, your lead style is an 8. So your lead style is different. His. His being a six. So you have this outward attention to the world. You're not as aware of what's going on inside of Adrienne as this guy is kind of aware of at least the negative side of what's going on inside of his wife. And he then writes that into a story of that could cause her to get out of here. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:48]:
And so that's the great danger. So what he needs to recognize so a secure attachment for him is to bring to the table. The reality is, on the surface, I want sex. Sex, absolutely. What's going on below the table, I want closeness. And I think this is what's difficult for a lot of people. Again, gender stereotypes. We gotta be so careful.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:09]:
But whenever you have the higher drive spouse, which 70% of the time is the man, I think it's very easy for the woman to think, well, he just wants sex. Not recognizing. No, no, he actually wants you. He actually wants this feeling of closeness with you. And whenever you can begin to reframe it in that way, it becomes more. Because think about this. Imagine a couple driving down the road, and the woman just desperately wants communication. And she says, hey, honey, I'd like to talk.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:38]:
And he says, no, I'm not talking to you right now. There's no way we're going to talk. Well, how difficult would that be? And yet that is the very language that many women use with men whenever it comes to intimacy. And they're actually sometimes oftentimes searching for the same thing. Communication and sex is literally the same desire. I desire to feel close to you, but it's not viewed that way. It's viewed. You would never criticize a spouse for wanting to talk to their husband or wife.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:09]:
You can never see somebody, some troll on the Internet. Can you believe all he wants to do is talk to me? Never.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:15]:
How dare he?
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:16]:
How dare he communicate?
Kevin Thompson [00:22:17]:
And yet sometimes we can view sex that way. Not recognizing what's going on underneath the table is this desire for clarity, closeness. So let's make a couple suggestions of things that they can do. And the first is just what we're talking about. Let's begin to name what sex actually represents. And it might be different for both of them, but let's communicate clearly what this means. So I think it's okay for her to say, look, for me, intimacy really does mean that we feel really connected. And so that's going to teach him that.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:49]:
That in order for her to feel comfortable with this, I need to work on this emotional connection with her. He needs to communicate, hey, when we do that, I feel really connected. And so she needs to begin to recognize he and I desire the same thing. And so it doesn't have to be perfect in order for me to engage in this and actually engaging in this. Notice this is going to lead to what I actually desire.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:13]:
This is where they say it starts in the morning.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:15]:
They.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:16]:
This kind of relationship.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:17]:
Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:17]:
So it's like he gets up and he's starting to think, what does she need to take those things out of her mind to relax her, to feel like this is a team, a partnership?
Kevin Thompson [00:23:26]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:23:27]:
Right. To. To then have any expectation for later on?
Kevin Thompson [00:23:31]:
Yeah, right. No, absolutely. Absolutely. A second thing I think they can do is so they need to name what it actually represents. The second thing that they can do is. And he specifically. But both of them, they really need to work on their repair. Well, I think what makes me nervous about this is sex is the presenting issue.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:51]:
That's really not the issue that's going on. Oftentimes, sex is not the actual issue that's at play. I think it's kind of the barometer. It shows you the conditions, the climate of what's taking place in the atmosphere. It's not the actual driver. As a matter of fact, what's interesting is couples who divorce, I think it's 85% of them will blame. Will say sex is a contributing factor to their divorce. So when a relationship goes bad, couples will quickly name sex.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:20]:
But if you look at successful couples, they rarely say, the key to our success is sex. So they will say, it's good, it contributes, but that's very rarely one of the top three things that they name. And so we can see that this intimacy really has a more negative impact on a relationship than it can have a positive impact. So it tends to come up strong. Couples generally aren't going to talk to you about sex issues. Generally, they figured it out in some.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:49]:
Way or they have a good mutual respect of. It doesn't have to be all the time, but it does happen. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:56]:
So what they need to do is they need repair. And so this idea of if he. He specifically. And she needs to recognize as well, if they can create this emotional safety. So my question here to her is how have we talked about this before? You're writing into us. You're running this in your head. So clearly it's at play. What kind of communication with him has been made? And here's my guess.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:18]:
Very little. Why do I say that?
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:21]:
Why does he say that, babe?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:23]:
Oh, I don't know.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:25]:
It's because of her avoidant attachment.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:27]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:27]:
Well, yeah, that makes sense.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:30]:
Obviously, I want to say that, but.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:32]:
As he's a chaser, he still doesn't want to ask the question.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:35]:
He's not chasing her in this scenario.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:37]:
Well, no, but he might. I mean, he might be. We don't know. But he's going to be nerv. He could be nervous because what if I ask and she unloads on me? Then I'm out. So in all likelihood, he's going to be. What was it she said it in here? He feels hurt in some way. Oh, he got.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:02]:
He got upset like I was rejecting him completely. Right. He felt unwanted. So his anxious attachment is going. The emotion of it is going to be expressed to her, but what he's going to express is his own emotion. She needs her emotion to be seen. That's the issue. Anxious attachment is going to fixate on themselves and expect her to fix him.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:27]:
Well, that perspective is still. I'm using you for me. And what he needs to do is to shelf himself for a second and to fixate on her and woo her heart out onto the table. And then another thing that needs to happen here is to just. All couples can begin to recognize this is there's a difference between timing and rejection. And so if the relationship. Man, we had a fight. We're just not that connected and close right now.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:53]:
I don't want to have intimacy. Okay. I'm not actually rejecting you. It's that I don't feel comfortable with it at this moment. But it's not a rejection of who you Are as a person, as an individual. And we can repair to get back to this place. But what probably happened in the first decades of Yalls relationship. I know it was ours as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:11]:
Is any for me specifically, being more anxiously attached to any. No. Was not a no to the moment. It was a no to me as a person.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:20]:
Bang on.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:21]:
Yeah. Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:22]:
Bang on.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:23]:
Bang on is a fascinating no. Point off. Is the problem in some way table come back in any way. So that idea of now recognizing and getting to a place of safety where you have the ability to say no without your partner feeling completely rejected. And we know that it's going to happen. We're going to repair and reconnect one thing.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:48]:
Because there's so many like us. The no really hurts the chest. Right. It hurts your heart. But one tip that we got from someone else was no means not right now.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:57]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:57]:
And to put a time limit of coming back to it. So it's like the 48 hours. You know, you've talked about 24. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've read the book. And it's.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:08]:
Or did you listen to it? Did you listen to it? I think I listened to it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:10]:
Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:10]:
Nice voice. Me talking a young Kevin Thompson.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:13]:
Yeah. But that gave me reassurance that it was not. No to me. It was. Not yet. Not now. It's okay. I love you.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:21]:
Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:22]:
Right. And then it would come back to it.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:23]:
No, that can. That can make a huge difference. So let me give them one tool. If you're listening, this is one tool I think you can really work on. This is the old idea. Psychologists call it rupture and repair. So there is an emotional rupture. And we all go through them, we all experience them.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:38]:
This is not unique by any means. But successful couples, they don't rupture less, they repair more. And so when they recognize there's a disconnection, how is it that you reconnect? For me and Jenny, it's taking a walk. It can be meaningful conversation. It's the recognition of and the ability to just say, I just don't feel close right now. That's not an attack on anybody. That could be the circumstances of life. It could be the seasons of the year.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:03]:
It could be the workload that's upon you. It could be man. Parenting has been really hard right now. And so my mind is there. So now I just feel disconnected. Could be the time that's going on, a fight that's happened. Anything but the ability to say, I don't feel connected right now. And to not that's not a protest.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:20]:
That is an honest attachment need that's out on the table. I'm saying here's what I feel. And then the other spouse has to not get defensive but to go, oh my goodness, that's a danger to us as a couple. Let's get to work on that. How can we reconnect? And so every couple needs a short kind of checklist of here are the easy ways we reconnect. Doesn't always make it easy. But generally speaking, this is our go to of what we can do. So for me and Jenny, it's going for a walk, it's taking time out on the porch.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:49]:
It can be sometimes let's go to dinner. We just need a little bit of time together to remind ourselves of why we love each other, to get moved beyond whatever the issues of the moment are and go, oh yeah, she loves me. She's for me. We're on the same side now. We can go attack those.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:02]:
I think having fun too.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:04]:
Oh, absolutely.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:05]:
Laugh. Find a way to laugh together or be silly.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:09]:
Cuz I was going to say ours is typically when you blow up. Cuz I don't attend to the need until it's a cry for help. What is our. What is our what? We don't have a porch. We can't go out on the porch.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:22]:
You can come over sometime. Thank you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:23]:
We will. Yeah, I think we go for dinner or we watch a show. I. I don't know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:28]:
I think it'd be good if we talked about that and recognized.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:31]:
That's great. That'd be great.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:32]:
The next time we do it, you know what's going to happen?
Kevin Thompson [00:30:35]:
Create a checklist. I love it. I'm sorry. And you know what? If you all will do this, stick with me here. If you all will create this checklist the next time, you know what that's going to happen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:45]:
Yeah, it's going to change the eyes.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:46]:
That's exactly right. We'll see you next time, friends.