Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast. Marriage and family never meant to be a game of chance. Blaine and Adrienne. What's Blaine looking at?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:07]:
Just a quick scan of all the things I wanted to make sure.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:10]:
Wow.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:11]:
Met them in the eye.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:12]:
Okay, there we go. And Blaine is here for you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:14]:
I'm here for you. I see you.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:16]:
Adrienne and I are acting like they're not even there. They're not.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:18]:
Who are we talking about?
Kevin Thompson [00:00:20]:
All right, here we are. We're back.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:21]:
Oh, this is fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:23]:
Little fight club.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:24]:
This is fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:26]:
Since our last meeting, have y' all any tenseness for the two of you? Oh, I don't think.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:35]:
So. Today was good. Therefore, we thought we were good.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:37]:
Look at the. The repair apparently happened so quickly.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:40]:
I actually think we were, like, kind of united on, like. We were. I don't know. Yeah, I think it was a good week.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:47]:
Well, I also say this. Last night, we were at an event, and it's fun to see your wife really stretch her faith, and she was praying with people and for our group and stuff.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:59]:
It was.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:59]:
Good job.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:00]:
Great job.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:01]:
That felt good.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:02]:
It was great.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:02]:
Felt real good.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:03]:
Out of the comfort zone or not. Not at all.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:05]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:05]:
I don't really like to pray in groups.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:07]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:08]:
In the quiet place. Prayer.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:10]:
Oh, I got it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:10]:
And I noticed, like, as she progressed, the first part was like, I'm saying the things I'm supposed to be saying.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:16]:
And then it got real.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:17]:
Then it got into.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:18]:
Yeah, I felt that the spirit kind of shifted. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:22]:
Is that. Thank you for noticing that. Yeah. Secure attachment or what's going on there?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:25]:
I don't know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:25]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:27]:
Kevin hasn't had a Coke yet this morning.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:29]:
Coke? What?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:31]:
Oh, he has.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:32]:
What do you mean? I haven't. What do you mean? I haven't.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:34]:
I'm tired.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:34]:
Of course I have. Why?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:35]:
Is it a pep in your stomach?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:36]:
I am a little tired. If you want to. Matter of fact, let's start with prayer. Adrienne. No, I'm just kidding. All right. Hey, fight club. What do we got? What do we got going on today?
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:44]:
Oh, ding, ding, ding. Babe, you got this one.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:46]:
Don't you fight to be had.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:48]:
Text marriage to 56316 or go to Adrienne Neufeld.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:52]:
Thank you.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:52]:
At Adrienne Neufeld.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:53]:
I mean, it's on Instagram.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:55]:
Instagram.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:55]:
No, we changed it. Yeah, we're now our life marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:59]:
Oh, it's no longer your name.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:00]:
No.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:01]:
I mean, I knew the logo would change, but now that the name change.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:03]:
We just did it. We just took a step of faith and we changed our name, so that might mess up a few.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:08]:
You sound.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:11]:
Our life. Marriage. Yeah, but truly, it's Yalls life.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:14]:
It's our life.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:14]:
It's not our.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:15]:
Not. Not your life.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:17]:
Yalls life.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:18]:
And we want them to see them being the viewer, to see their life in it and invite their husbands to growing more in their marriage.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:26]:
Anyways, the point of that is send us your fights.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:28]:
And they're coming in. They're coming in people. We're talking to our people, our friends, our people that we're walking around the ground too.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:35]:
I'm just finding fights. We're on the ground.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:37]:
We're on the ground looking for fights. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:41]:
Okay. What do we got?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:42]:
Ready?
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:42]:
Yeah, let's go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:44]:
Here's the letter.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:44]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:45]:
Dear Change the odds Marriage Fight Club.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:47]:
See, they. They. They understand how confused we are about what we're calling ourselves.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:51]:
Whatever you are. Our most common fight is about sex. We are a family with a few young kids, all under 11. For context, it feels as the male. I am always initiating the sex. She's always saying she's overstimulated. And so when we give time to debrief, at the end of the night, she. She scrolls social media and then falls asleep.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:12]:
Ooh.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:13]:
When we schedule the sex, it's never romantic. It feels servicing. I don't like the feeling of using my wife or she using me for a service. I want her to want it. This leads us to me pursuing her. She's denying me, me going to other vices and us not talking the next day. This has grown to many long fights for us. And when we finally do it, there is guilt because it feels like I pressure her to do something that should be a big part of our marriage personalities.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:42]:
We both would be feeling a need to control. Not like this situation, but in general. We both have storied past as well that I am hearing we might have anxious attachment. Thank you so much for talking about the things many people don't know.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:57]:
Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:58]:
I love talking about it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:03:59]:
Wait, wait. From trying to figure it out in the bedroom.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:01]:
That's where it's from. Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:03]:
Nice.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:04]:
Is that really the name he wanted to choose? I don't think it is. I think he cleaned it up.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:10]:
Kept it G rated.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:11]:
We appreciate that. Wow. So we got a lot of stuff going on. So much in that one. That's pretty interesting. I think so. First of all, just the idea of kids under 11.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:23]:
It's a busy time.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:24]:
This is a busy time. And it might be. I mean, that might be the time in life that Most impacts our intimacy because they're not gonna understand boundaries or anything like that. They're not gonna understand. Right. The door's locked. Like, we're not gonna try to find a way in or anything like that. I mean, I could be wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:43]:
But with now young adults, my guess is if we're upstairs, they're nowhere near. Like, they've got an idea. They can kind of clue in to some extent. So this makes it much more difficult. A couple things we're gonna want to kind of parse out of this. The always language is very intriguing here. So it sounds as though we've gotten into this rigid pattern in which they're playing unhealthy roles, both of them. The wording in there of I turn to other vices kind of scares me a little bit because I have assumptions about what that might be, which is going to complicate now even further the concept of what's going on.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:22]:
And then I think we have actually a very classic kind of pursue withdrawal pattern here. Right. It sounds like he's pursuing, she's withdrawing. And that is how they always interact until finally they connect. But even whenever they connect, it's not meaningful in any way whatsoever. And it actually just sets up the next fight. Because if he's pursuing, she's withdrawing. Here's my guess.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:45]:
He's pursuing, she's withdrawing. They finally connect, and he thinks, either okay, now we're gonna connect better, or that was disappointing. Cause he can feel her absence from the scenario, which actually makes him want to pursue harder. Wow.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:03]:
And then the pressure he puts on her, she's like, I can't handle it.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:07]:
Like, it's like, ooh, Absolutely. Absolutely.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:10]:
Not that I like no wow from. No. But I know the feeling of, like, when your kids are young and you're constantly. They're all over you. You're, like, touched all day. You're over stimulated. And the last thing you want to do, like, you put the kids down, and then you gotta also put your husband to bed. In a sense, you know, it's like another thing you have to do.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:31]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:31]:
And I know that's not the right way to frame it, but that in the moment when you're at your worst, that's how it feels.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:37]:
You don't have to do it. You want to do it. Don't we? Come on, what's. Why.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:41]:
No, not all the time. Like, anyways, I guess we'll get into it.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:46]:
Adrienne, I think that was a great way to explain it and notice what's going on here. Is, I think this is a classic scenario where you have tension in the bedroom. But if you listen there, the context is the bedroom. But it's not as though that's the primary thing that's presenting itself. Because what I'm hearing is, man, we're just not as connected. So there's an erosion of friendship. Here's what I hear, an erosion of friendship. I don't hear the lack of trust as much as an erosion of friendship.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:17]:
But then I hear a lack of respect, which is now gonna be the partnership for both of them. Both of them.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:23]:
Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:24]:
So I hear this idea, and it's just interesting to me how these three roles, they just play with each other so much. And so as the intimacy begins to wear away, he gets frustrated with her. She has maybe a lack of respect for him going, you shouldn't need this so much. He has a lack of respect for her. Like, all right, if you're struggling to do this, I now start to question some other things and your abilities of what you're doing. And then the connection of the friendship just seems like it's disappeared in some way, which is why these things are so important. Friend, partner, and lover, they just interplay within each other. And I think we can hear you here.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:59]:
He says here that an idea of anxious attachment. And I think you can hear that in many ways and what's going on. But I also think it sounds as though in this area, she's looking at this from an avoidant perspective. And so let's just think about how we would approach this in different ways from attachment itself. So a secure attachment, then sex becomes one place for meaningful connection. It's not the only thing that we do, but it's a meaningful thing that we do and we appreciate it. But both of us have the right to desire it. To say yes or to say no at any given moment.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:37]:
I will initiate at times. She will initiate at other times. There's this holistic nature. And not that we always approach it in the exact same way. I'm not saying that. But there is some overlap in how we're approaching it. And it's not this. Notice the thing about this situation is this rigidness of this is what it's always become.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:57]:
Yeah, it's always him wanting and her not. She's now the gatekeeper of what's going on and this frustration. Whereas in a secure attachment, it really is much more interplay of. There's times I don't want it. There are times when she doesn't want it. There's Times I initiate, there's times she initiates. This is one element. If it doesn't happen that night, it's not that big of a deal.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:17]:
We prioritize this. We know it's going to happen the next day or anything like that. There's just this very healthy common sense rhythm about life. That's not where they are.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:26]:
Yeah. Can we interject on that? Because I think one of the key things that helped us in our marriage was if it was no tonight, it typically meant yes, tomorrow or the next day.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:36]:
Yeah. We tried to have, like, a window of like, 24 to 48 hours of, like, if someone initiates and it's a no. You have.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:43]:
That's. That's right. Out of Friends, Partners and lovers.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:46]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:46]:
It made it all the way to Canada.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:48]:
Apparently it did.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:49]:
So the 24 hour rule was one of the first things that I became a little bit known for.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:54]:
It was like, 24 hour lenient, though, in that season of life. Can we make it 73?
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:58]:
I was 48. So it was in agreement. We had an agreement.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:01]:
It doesn't have to. The time. Don't get caught up on the time. But it is the concept that's going on. Jenny and I was 24, but, wow, good job. Jenny didn't say she liked it, but it was this idea. And so. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:14]:
Early. Yeah. When Friends, Partners, Lovers, even before it came out, it was a blog post that kind of went viral a little bit. But it was that idea of, let's give some space here to where it doesn't. The rejection doesn't feel all consuming and the demand doesn't feel like it has to happen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:29]:
No.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:29]:
Like a demand.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:30]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:30]:
Instead, there. There's some leniency out there.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:33]:
Oh, I want to advocate for the guy. Go ahead.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:35]:
Though I was gonna say, I like that because I once went to this women's Bible study, and she was like, we do it every 24 hours, no question. And I was like. And I had, like, little kids at the time. I was like, that's not gonna work for me. And it was so, like, defeating. So this was like the. The leniency of the boundary, but, like, knowing you're gonna come back. Yeah, it was like something every 48 or 24 hours.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:58]:
And I was just like, okay, I might as well just every 40 hours.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:02]:
What was.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:03]:
What's.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:04]:
What's the website?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:06]:
No, it was someone at a. Like a women's Bible study.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:09]:
That's. That's. That's the Instagram handle. No longer our life.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:13]:
Yeah, exactly.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:15]:
What were you Gonna say.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:16]:
Well, what I was going to say, the safety and security that one would feel in that. And I was. I was thinking about this when I was chatting to someone else about their tendencies when it's no. Right. And I'm fearful for a lot of guys that when you hear no and you don't know that the next one's coming ever, where do you go with that? Right. And I mean, I don't know if we're going to get that in too deep into this. But then my fear of that, as you walk down that line that distorts your ideas of what it is, is going to be. So when you come back to it and it's disappointing, I want you guys to take ownership of that because you're distorting your viewpoint of what it's supposed to be.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:59]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:00]:
No. Again, this pursue withdrawal pattern. So Sue Johnson in her book Hold Me Tight says basically there's only three types of fights. We're not that complicated. Right. And so pursue withdrawal is one of them. I think she calls it the polka protest. But it is this idea that.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:17]:
So he's now pursuing. She's now withdrawn. I'm sorry, polka protests. Something else. He's pursuing. She's withdrawing. And it's this exhausting race. And you can hear the tiredness and the weariness within this.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:30]:
And I think one of my fears here, and I totally get where this guy's coming from, but one of my fears here is we've replaced now connection for sexual. And they're so intermingled, it's very easy to do. Because where I would want this couple to really focus in on is how can we connect better? Then I think the sex would begin to take care of itself to some extent. Right?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:52]:
Yeah. Because what is it? It's like men need to have sex to open up and women need to be opened up to have sex. So it's like a little uncomfortable about.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:02]:
How that was phrased.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:04]:
You can edit that out.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:05]:
This is a great episode.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:08]:
Well, I guess mentally and emotionally.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:10]:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:12]:
No, you're not wrong.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:13]:
You're 100% true.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:15]:
Yeah. So to put all the pressure on just the one act for that to, like, that's how you feel loved. That's how you feel connected. It's just not even possible for women, I don't think.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:24]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:25]:
And yet. And yet for men, this is how many men view it and how they understand it. But I do think if they could start to have some intentional. And we're already solving this one. We haven't even Completed, completely diagnosed it. But I do think a recommendation here for them would be, how can we increase our intimacy outside of the bedroom? What does it look like to connect? What would it look like if y' all took intentional time on the couch just to cuddle, watch something, have that physical connection? And in part, what we're trying to show her, in part is that, hey, it's not just about sex. It truly is about how I want to emotionally relate to you and to allow her body even calm. Because I could even see here in some ways that her body might get a little heightened whenever he's around because she feels like there's a threat here.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:13]:
So I think it's possible here that what you probably have is you have a guy with a more anxious pathway and a woman with a more avoidant pathway. So now these are clashing. And so you think about what's happening here. And what's interesting is many times where this is the case in sexual, it is reversed than in other areas.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:33]:
Like. Go on.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:34]:
So in other areas, he might be more avoidant and she might be more anxious, but in the sex component, that they can switch roles. It may not be, but it happens on occasion. But you can see here that. So her avoidant attachment now makes her as the gatekeeper. What's going on? It is a sense of control. I would have questions. How does she feel about their friendship, their partnership? Does she feel taken advantage of in any way? Does she feel like all the demands upon her? Does she feel like the mental load is too much upon her? If that's the case, maybe instead of communicating that clearly, she's using sex as a tool to communicate her.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:12]:
To protest, kind of.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:13]:
Yes, a protest. To communicate her unhappiness. At the same time, he's coming at it from a more anxious pathway, which is. Instead of knowing that I'm loved, I need sex for you to prove it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:24]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:24]:
And so I need this act from you. And it's really the only way I know that I'm desired. It's the only way I feel safe. So what you have here, I think, is him searching for safety via sex, her finding safety in control.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:41]:
Yeah, yeah, that was us.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:42]:
Where does that come from as a child? Like literally the tendencies to become.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:50]:
Yeah, well, yeah. And childhood. And even beyond childhood, it is the idea of. So an anxious pathway is much more. I've experienced the goodness of love, but it's been uncertain. So I desperately need it. So I'm going to cling to it. So this is going to be me, is A more anxious pathway.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:08]:
I need Jenny to have sex with me, to remind me that I am loved, that we're safe. If we're not doing this on a regular basis, then, ooh, oh, my gosh, she might abandon me. Right. Remember, the fear of anxious pathway is abandonment. And what is more proof that I'm not abandoned, then you are naked in the bed with me. That's proof, right? What is? Some fear that I might be abandoned? You're saying no. So suddenly rejection becomes this great threat of it's speaking into what my greatest fear is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:39]:
But as, as a woman. That's not what we're thinking at all.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:43]:
No, no, no, no, no.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:44]:
But I, I, I think we struggled. I think this was us for a period of time when our kids were really little. Our little, our youngest is four. So it's not like we're totally out, but we're definitely in, like, easier stage.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:56]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:57]:
Because like, what you said, it's like a form of control. When I, when he was feeling anxious attachment about sex and it wasn't, he was starting to, he told, he physically told me, like, it feels like you don't love me. And the control thing is like, okay, well, I'm doing all these things and I don't feel supported in the home front, so I don't feel like I can give myself to you in this area because I'm just like, burnt out or whatever. But you're taking it as like you don't love me, and I'm taking it as like we're not a partnership. It's not equal playing ground. I have, you know.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:30]:
So what y' all do about that? How'd you get to a better spot?
Blaine Neufeld [00:17:33]:
We communicated for one, in a safe place where it was like there was tears at times, and it just became an uncomfortable scenario in the bedroom. Right. So there had to be a breaking point. So we had good conversation about things.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:17:49]:
I also had to shift my mind to be like, this is a physical need for him. It's not even about me sometimes. And, like, it's an act of love and service, like, for him, for our marriage. And he also had to accept that it's not always going to be this grand, intimate.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:09]:
Yeah, yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:10]:
Scene.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:10]:
Because I think, too, to your point of, like, the pressure of the expectations of it make it a whole thing. So if it's once in a blue moon, it better be unbelievable.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:19]:
Oh, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:20]:
And I need to also show her how much I love her. I want to show her that same love that I'm hoping to receive. So so then when that gets denied. And then it became. Cause there was a small window where it then became serviceable. And then that hurt more because there was no connection of. Well, no offense, anyone you can get serviced anywhere. That's the guy's mind.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:43]:
It's like, this isn't anything special.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:45]:
Yeah. But then I'm like, well, you need it, so let's just do it.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:48]:
Right, right, right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:49]:
So it's just like a miscommunication, really. But also, you saw that I needed more support with the kids at home. You stepped up in that area. And I was like, okay, like, I'm gonna do this for him too. And for us.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:03]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:19:03]:
And when Kev said, when you say the. Neither feel respected, that I think is what changed in us is we started.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:19:10]:
To respect each other in other areas. Not just there in it, but it.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:14]:
Yeah. So here's a very common thing. I think specifically when kids are little, I could be wrong, but this idea of friend, partner, and lover. I think most relationships begin as a friendship. Obviously, the intimacy then takes hold. Partnership is something that, in my opinion, often drags behind and is learned a little bit later. And I think for guys specifically, we really don't have the capacity to learn how to be good partners until the kids come along and we start screwing it up. And then we have the switch that we can then begin to make.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:46]:
I hear it all the time. First baby's born, and I'll ask the guy, how are things going? And he will say, I just want my wife back. And I'm like, you can't get her back, but you can join her where she is. And that is, she's in this new space, and if you will go join her there, not only will you feel reconnected now, she will feel supported, and it will be a whole new change. And I really think it's a progression in the same way that the woman. The moment you're pregnant, you're a mom, and. And you have nine months where nobody else is necessarily seeing you as a mom. You hear the language all the time.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:21]:
Right. You're about to be a mom. And I'm thinking, nope, she already is. Right. But you have this nine months of preparation of all this, where that change is happening, but nobody necessarily sees it. I think for men, that comes later.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:20:33]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:33]:
And that progression of what it means now to be a dad and to really get into what a partnership looks like and notice what's happening here, it is a failure, in my opinion. This struggle is a failure of partnership that has now expressed Itself in the bedroom. And they didn't recognize it. Which is fine. No judgment. They didn't recognize it, they didn't see it, they didn't do anything about it. But now that it's causing problems over here, now they're going, oh, wait. But notice how in all likelihood, it is probably solved.
Kevin Thompson [00:20:59]:
Not primarily through the bedroom. Yeah, 100% it's probably solved in the friendship and the partnership. I think one thing this couple, it sounds like they're missing is meaningful conversation. Let's get to the heart of just what was it this past year of Remember the little meme that went around TikTok and Instagram of we listen, we do not judge. Remember that? Oh, apparently y' all don't. Okay, well, I've been on the socials. You know how much better I am at the socials. And so.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:26]:
But yeah, it was this idea that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:28]:
Must'Ve been a good one.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:28]:
A lot of it was parents with, like, adult children or teenage children. And so the parent would say, we listen and we do not judge. And then the kid would say, I have now. Then the kid would say something that would just. Or terrifying to the parent had they.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:41]:
Really known I stole your car and I sold it or something like that. I remember now.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:45]:
So what this couple needs is to have a little bit of that. Of is there a way that I can truly put my heart out on the table? And it's going to happen in imperfect ways. And you not judge it, but with compassion and grace. You find the intention behind it and the humanity that's there, and you value that. And. And then you put your heart out on the table. And I don't judge it, and I find the humanity that's there and I nurture that. And then we begin to find what we really do share in common.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:16]:
Because my guess is both of them actually want connection.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:19]:
Oh, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:20]:
They just don't know how to find it. And to approach it in an anxious and avoidant way. You're not going to find it. So what's the answer for both of them? The answer for both of them is to begin to figure out what. What does a secure approach look like here? And so for him, what it means, I actually have to learn that to have value and meaning. I actually don't need her to give me that all the time. I actually can find that on my own. I can soothe myself.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:50]:
I'm not talking about self pleasure. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about literally an emotional soothing of the needs that are there to tell Myself the truth that she does love me. Look at all these things that she is doing, all of that. And then what she, I think can begin to do is begin to lean in a little bit more in leveraging him and their relationship. That is a way to meet needs rather than just assuming she has to do it all on her own.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:17]:
Yeah. Yeah. I would also add, too, is. Sorry. I'm trying to gather my thoughts. If you can get away as a couple, absolutely do it. You know, whether it's even just the day or a night, that is. That's something Wayne and I have done.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:37]:
Yes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:38]:
When we get the. When our parents come in town, we try and get away for a night. It's been great for our marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:43]:
Yep.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:43]:
Because you can fully relax. And as a mom, like, it's like kids are taken care of, I'm present. And then if you can talk and do the stuff, you know, two is like pray for your husband too, that he sees your. Like, you know, that your heart can be soft, his heart can be soft. That you can communicate, that you can see each other's needs and really just partner up. I had one more, but I.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:05]:
Okay, I'll go for the guy. Because I think that there's some practical steps of how to start respecting your spouse more. We were talking to a guy yesterday and he had to manage the three kids on his own. And he says, man, I respect my wife far more. Cuz I went in, did it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:22]:
That wasn't really the words he said.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:23]:
Well, I'm paraphrasing, but you, you totally get it.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:26]:
We got friends, we got to clean things up sometimes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:29]:
But at the same time, he gained a new respect for his wife. So get yourself involved. Someone else in the, in the group said, why do I, as the wife, have to think of what's for dinner? Can you not help me every night? So, guys, there's small little wins that you can say, babe, we're doing this for din. Oh, okay. Like, you take the lead, you take charge. You look for little areas where her stresses are and you solve small, small problems. And they are big, big wins. Because she just feels a more connected and seen and seen.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:01]:
And sometimes as moms, we don't feel seen.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:03]:
Yes.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:04]:
We feel like the maid.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:05]:
Absolutely. And so, so notice in. In something like that. I think this is a perfect example of how we have to recognize whatever pattern we're in in one area. Oftentimes it's reversed in other areas. So what she's saying is I always have to initiate dinner. I initiate dinner all the time.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:20]:
And now you want me to initiate sex dinner.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:21]:
Not fair. And that he's the gatekeeper. Right. Is this acceptable or not acceptable? It's the exact same scenario, just in this other area where the roles are actually switched. So how can we begin to have understanding and begin to assist each other now? It can't be. All right, I'm going to clean the kitchen. So that this is going to happen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:39]:
Isn'T a game of tit for tat.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:41]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:41]:
Quid pro quo is another way to.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:45]:
Say I got it in. I wanted her to get it in.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:47]:
Oh, you've been waiting the whole time for that?
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:52]:
That's why I'm here, folks.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:53]:
Okay, that's it. That's it. Okay, but. But it is this idea of, look, we're partners. Yeah. We're in this together. And then I think once those things begin to take care of this, once this couple begins to communicate with each other, once I think he initiates a little bit more in some partnership areas, and then she has maybe a greater understanding of. All right, here's my tendency.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:15]:
My tendency is actually to protest via sex. So even the concept of just at night, now I'm kind of doom scrolling at the end. What would it look like if you actually just put your phone away and with no sexual expectation whatsoever?
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:31]:
Correct.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:32]:
You begin to cuddle in that moment in a way or talk. Yes, that too.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:37]:
She hates a good cuddle.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:26:38]:
I'm not a cuddler.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:39]:
Oh, really?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:26:40]:
Well, yeah. So it's like, I rather, like, tell me all about your day. Every detail. I want to know it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:44]:
You know, and I'm exhausted and I just want to cuddle.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:46]:
You've been talking all day.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:47]:
Exactly.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:48]:
Like the last thing I need.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:26:49]:
I know. Well, so then how do you see it's a compromise. You have to compromise. You can't be. Even for the lady. You can't be rigid, like.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:56]:
Yeah, but to Kevin's point, the last thing that followed for us is partnership. But now I can't wait to tell her because we're a partnership. So suddenly it's like whatever happened in.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:05]:
His day is also things like it happened.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:07]:
And I want her to give me her perspective because I respect her more of her perspective. All those things compound in a good way over time.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:15]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there is a physical component to her. Okay. You don't like cuddling. I totally get that. That's fine. He's gonna need it. Your body actually is gonna need it to an extent as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:28]:
So what would it look like if we just took.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:31]:
It's denial.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:32]:
If we just took a little bit of time, it's just a few minutes or whatever to allow that to happen. Because what's happening is your heart rates are going to get in sync, oxytocin is going to be released, your cortisol is going to begin to decrease. These are all Barbara Wilson facts for us. And there's a physical component here. And I think one thing couples do not recognize is how much they could leverage each other's physical bodies for their own health and emotional well being. And that's outside of sex. That's the power of all this other connection. And I get it.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:04]:
Specifically this season of life, you get touched a lot. I totally understand that. And so here's one thing that this couple can begin to do. What would it look like if he began to make sure she had space? Yes, give her space. Great point from the kids, from everything.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:20]:
Oh, yeah, now we have her.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:23]:
Say more.
Blaine Neufeld [00:28:23]:
Now we have her.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:25]:
So look at what's going on. Here's what's happening. And this is a common thing in fights. The outcome we desire, the actions we are taking to get that are leading to the opposite results. And oftentimes, if we will actually do the opposite of what we are tempted to do, it will lead to the outcome that we actually desire. So his thought now is this. If I don't pursue after her, we're never having sex again. It's never going to happen, all those kind of things.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:53]:
And so he's literally chasing her down at every moment, grabbing at her physically and metaphorically to bring her close. Because if I don't, you're never gonna know this.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:01]:
I'm gonna lose her. I'm gonna lose her.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:02]:
And so what that does is it keeps on pushing her away.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:05]:
Yes, it does.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:07]:
This is a horrible illustration, but it's one I use all the time. Whenever we were little, had a little dog, you'd open the door, the dog would jet, right, run the neighborhood. Now it's in danger, we chase after it. Game for a dog now.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:18]:
Yeah. They're having fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:19]:
And the only chance you had with that dog was to stop and to start walking home. And the next thing you know, the dog would kind of look at, stop, game's over, then start coming after you. Right. So often in this, pursue, withdrawal. If you're just constantly pursuing an exhausting way, they're going to keep on running because they want space. Well, what would it look like if I said she needs space? So I'm actually going to stand, take a Step back. I'm gonna find a way to meet my own needs. Not with these vices he's talking about, but instead telling himself the truth, finding meaningful exercise, all these different kind of things.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:58]:
What if he began to help around the house? He's taking care of dinner. He's doing all of that. I think what happens is she gets this sense of, okay, I am gonna actually have space. Cause in her mind, I think the way it's running is this. This is just another demand. And if I meet it today, he's gonna expect me to meet it tomorrow. And can I just use a little bit of that? And then now there's this extreme. Exh.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:19]:
I already can't do enough. Now I'm gonna have to do more. Well, if he starts to give her space, she starts to go, wait a second. He recognizes what's going on, which allows her to lean in, to know, if I lean in right now, I'm not gonna be trapped. Think about avoidant attachment. Is this fear of now being trapped that I need space, but I'm not gonna get it, because once he gets ahold of me, he's never gonna let go. Well, if they can begin to show each other that I can actually offer you what it is that you want, well, then that empowers me to step out of whatever is my natural temptation or tendency and to approach it in a different way. And what we're doing is we're finding a secure approach.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:58]:
And once we have a secure approach, they both have individuality. They both have distance, they have connection at the exact same time, they both have the ability to say yes and no. They both have the power to initiate or not to initiate. And then it becomes this much more healthy kind of interaction as opposed to this rigid pattern that they have right now that they really can't break free from.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:19]:
And that requires communication, right?
Kevin Thompson [00:31:22]:
Oh, absolutely.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:23]:
Yeah. It's not like, okay, I'm taking the kids. Like, wink, wink. You know what's like, no, you got to.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:29]:
But it's out of love and respect. Like he says before, you're not doing it for the thing. You're doing it for the betterment of your team.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:35]:
And then when your team's better, you're better.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:38]:
Everybody. Yeah. And, like, think about. People would always say, oh, you're just in a. You know, you're in the crazy season. And you said at the start of this episode, where it's like, you're not in the crazy season anymore. So a byproduct is patience for these guys.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:51]:
Yes. That's with young kids gonna say it is a season.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:55]:
Because he's saying, give her room. You've got lots of room. So suddenly you're in a far healthier position.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:00]:
Yeah, I know, but you got lots of room.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:01]:
Do you have lots of room?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:02]:
I've got more room.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:03]:
Okay, that's.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:03]:
But not lots.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:04]:
That's what I thought. I thought outrageous amounts of room.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:08]:
No, but you gotta put the building blocks in place now, even in the crazy season, so that when the storm kind of passes, you still have that partnership and connection. You don't want to start building that in the nice season.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:20]:
You know, Is this why we get. When we get to. Kids are gone and there's no foundation there. They've actually never built.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:26]:
They never worked on it throughout this. Yep. This is the danger. This is how a season can become a life.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:31]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:32]:
Is if you get in these patterns, especially what's being said here. A couple of things. The. The rigid pattern that they're in is a danger. That's a red flag to me. The vices are a danger. That's a red flag to me. And so you just get used to this.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:45]:
So I think it's good to recognize this is a season. So other seasons could be easier. However, we can't just wait until then.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:52]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:52]:
We still have to come back to John Gottman. We still have to be friends that prioritize sex at every season. Now, the frequency might look different in this season. I totally get it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:03]:
But.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:03]:
But there's still a priority to it. What he needs to see is just a little bit of her understanding that not just you value this, we value this. And what does that look like? What she needs to see is a little bit of recognition of, you value me more than just that. And so as they can start beginning to give each other those things, then it's still a difficult season and things get easier, but they're on a pathway in which when that time comes, it is going to be easier versus if you create these bad habits.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:37]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:38]:
This may never change.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:38]:
Can we also have, like, realistic expectations? Like, it's like, you might think we should be doing it every day. And I'm like, well, once a week is fine. Like. But compromising. Talking about, like, what's our goal each, you know, for a week.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:51]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:51]:
But what every day might be. Addiction.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:53]:
What? What might be a what?
Kevin Thompson [00:33:55]:
Addiction.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:55]:
Addiction.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:57]:
Oh, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:58]:
To be clear.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:02]:
I'm not saying that, but the idea of. All right, so first year or two of marriage. Okay, great. Let's take that out of the Picture. If the expectation now is we're going to do this every day.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:17]:
That's not fair.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:18]:
I got questions.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:19]:
That's not reality.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:20]:
No. I think it probably does become. It actually can be one of two things for a man. Because let's face it, I've never heard of a woman asking for sex every single day. Maybe it has to be.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:29]:
I'm sure there's some interesting women out.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:31]:
There and I think this is important, that in 30% of the relationships, the woman does have the higher sex drive.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:37]:
What?
Kevin Thompson [00:34:39]:
Okay, cool, cool. So what that means is ours is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:42]:
Not the higher life.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:47]:
So in 30% of the relationships, the woman has the outer sex drive. So one of my fears is somebody's driving down the road listening right now, and she's like, am I wrong? I want this more and what's going on?
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:56]:
Yeah, yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:56]:
I mean, good for you.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:57]:
So get it. The last thing we want is to confuse that totally. But this idea of if somebody has an extremely unhealthy, anxious pathway, it can be, I have to have this every day or I don't feel approved. That's something they need to work on to recognize I'm actually. I'm actually using her, not loving her.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:22]:
Oh, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:22]:
Or him.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:23]:
Or him.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:24]:
Or him. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:25]:
Vice versa.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:26]:
But there can also be an opposite side of that. Actually. A guy could have an avoidant pathway and then want sex every single day because he desperately craves connection but doesn't really know how to get it. And the only way he ever feels connected is through sex. But even then, he views it as just a physical act. Yeah. And his heart and his emotions aren't actually present.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:48]:
And she probably feels that.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:49]:
She's absolutely going to feel that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:35:51]:
She's like, this is just a physical thing. It's not a connection.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:54]:
So then the question becomes, what does a truly secure pathway look like? And that's what it is that they actually want to pursue. Where it's an expression of connection, where it is both initiate, both accept, both can say no. There's not pressure on any individual. One act, they both are going to prioritize it in such a way that. That they know what's going to happen. Again, this is a value that they have in what's going on. When the fight happens and fight's gonna happen with everybody, there's a quick repair. There's an understanding of what's taking place.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:25]:
It's not my own identity that now that is at stake in some way. And ultimately what's being communicated is, I wanna connect with you. That's the ultimate goal is this idea of connection versus now her feeling like she's being used and he feeling like he's being rejected. And that's where I think that's where the danger really lies.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:46]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:46]:
Yeah, I like it. I got so many thoughts because I'm going through all the different stories of people and like trying. I'm always trying to help people right when I'm talking to them. And what's common is, is are we all just anxious, attachment or avoidant?
Kevin Thompson [00:37:06]:
Oh, oh, no, no, no, no. Oh no.
Blaine Neufeld [00:37:08]:
Where we eventually get to a secure.
Kevin Thompson [00:37:11]:
Now there's. Here's the thing. We probably all have a secure pathway within us and we probably all have at least one non secure pathway, either anxious or avoidant. But chances are, my guess is a lot of people are like me. They can be secure, they can be anxious, they can be avoided. Very multi talented.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:37:28]:
Wow.
Blaine Neufeld [00:37:29]:
Yeah, I love it because I think about when it goes into the other stuff in our life, how I found my secure attachment at work. Cause I found that validation and connection. And then that was one of the things I was gonna say before, but we're past it.
Kevin Thompson [00:37:42]:
Here's one question I have about this couple is they did mention that they do schedule sex. And then it just feels like he's using her. So how can they create that scheduled time to be more meaningful to both? And so I feel like what's probably happening is there is a lack of frequency here. He's probably putting too high of expectations upon this moment. She probably feels that pressure, feels like she can't live up to it. And so then in an avoidant way, she is not fully coming into that experience. Right. Just trying to check the box and get it done.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:15]:
Maybe not realizing that's her way of protesting that I still really don't want to do this. And why is it? Maybe she doesn't feel respected in other ways. Maybe it is the idea of these other vices that are out there.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:38:27]:
Why are you laughing?
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:27]:
Oh, just our life.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:31]:
Instagram marriage.
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:33]:
So the other day it was like, hey, what about tonight? And was like, oh, we just did that. And I was like, no, that was seven days ago. What are you talking about?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:38:42]:
I always think we just did it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:43]:
Just did it. Because it was so good that it just is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:38:47]:
No, it just. The days go so fast. I was like, yeah, we did that last night. You're like, no, that was three days ago.
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:51]:
And then there was.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:38:52]:
It blurs together.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:53]:
So what? I have a question. Yes. And y' all don't have to be this honest if you don't want to.
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:56]:
Be, but we can.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:57]:
Was it really seven or was it three? Sure, she said three. You said seven.
Blaine Neufeld [00:39:00]:
You said yesterday. And I was like, it's usually like a.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:39:03]:
It's not usually a whole week.
Kevin Thompson [00:39:04]:
It's.
Blaine Neufeld [00:39:05]:
No, but it's closer four plus than three down.
Kevin Thompson [00:39:09]:
What's the over? Under three and a half. Take the over, but.
Blaine Neufeld [00:39:15]:
And then the other one. And I share this because a. People do this whether they're healthy or not. This is what I'm assessing is like, I think we're pretty secure and pretty healthy. So I was doing something and she. And I said, again, what about tonight? And she says, well, no, if I'm suffering, you're suffering. And it was just like a joke, but it was not like, how dare you come at me in a moment of weakness here?
Kevin Thompson [00:39:38]:
And I'm suffering.
Blaine Neufeld [00:39:40]:
Is that.
Kevin Thompson [00:39:41]:
Is that security?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:39:42]:
Partnership is what it is. Friends suffer together. That's friendship. Okay, so just before we end, what is a healthy amount just for people who maybe don't know? Like, realistically, is there a number?
Kevin Thompson [00:39:55]:
No, there's not a number. So, I mean, if we look at biologically, all the research I have looked at says at least once a week, it would be a number. That. And here's what Blaine and I are going to hate is frequency above that does not show as much increased benefit as what Blaine and I would like. Less than once a week, there's a huge drop off of marital satisfaction. So a minimum, I think would be a minimum.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:40:23]:
That's.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:24]:
That should be once a week. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:40:26]:
I feel like that's.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:27]:
That's the bare, bare minimum.
Blaine Neufeld [00:40:29]:
But. But I will say of those that aren't there, put in the work together, because it only snowballs in a good way as it gets healthier schedule every.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:37]:
Wednesday, I would say. Yeah, because that's when you have your business socks on.
Blaine Neufeld [00:40:41]:
That's.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:41]:
That's a 90s business.
Blaine Neufeld [00:40:42]:
Socks.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:43]:
That's a bit. That's a 90s reference. Hey, if you. If you know what I'm talking about, comment right now on YouTube. The business sucks because it's Wednesday because there's nothing good on tv. And Tuesday nights is when we go to your.
Blaine Neufeld [00:40:52]:
That's what we should call this episode.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:53]:
There's a whole. There's a whole. There's a whole song out there.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:40:56]:
Yeah, I know, the socks song.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:00]:
This has taken a turn I did not expect. I still want to come back to the issue that this couple needs to figure out how to make sex Kevin.
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:06]:
That'S why you're here.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:07]:
More important, how can they value it? How can they. How can. What does she need to make this money more valuable? And what if the scheduled sex became about her and not about him? Because, I mean, let's face it, what.
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:21]:
Would that look like?
Kevin Thompson [00:41:22]:
You've heard me say this before. Sex that's good for him is not necessarily good for her. Sex that's good for her is always good for him.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:41:28]:
Ooh, I like that.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:29]:
So prioritize her experience, and maybe this would be a little bit easier.
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:35]:
That's a great point.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:36]:
I don't know. But I still think the concept of the communication that's going on here is some root issues, and here's my encouragement to this couple, is if y' all can't figure it out, go get some counseling.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:41:48]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:48]:
Because this is actually an issue that I think a counselor can improve, and it's worth it. Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:41:54]:
You need it to be. To be doable.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:58]:
Wow. Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:59]:
I found words from Adrienne.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:42:02]:
You need to be doable.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:05]:
Wow. A lot of shirts are being made today.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:07]:
This whole episode has been doable.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:42:10]:
I'm feeling really comfy. Took my shoes. Shoes off. I'm settling in.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:14]:
She's secure.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:15]:
I can leave now, and y' all can have a great time.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:17]:
So, business socks.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:19]:
That's exactly right. Because you know what would happen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:22]:
What would happen, Blaine, if the business socks came up?
Kevin Thompson [00:42:24]:
No, what would happen if this couple would figure this out? If they could figure out a way to be friends and partners that truly do prioritize sex? You know what it would do for them? It would change their odds.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:35]:
It would.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:42:36]:
Oh, he didn't even let you say it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:37]:
I was trying to, because I had it this time.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:38]:
I wasn't trusting that he was going to do it. Hey, we'll see you all next time.