Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast. Blaine and Adrienne, don't forget. Change the odds. We're marriage and family. We're never meant to be. A game of chance. That, my friends, is called a tagline.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:07]:
Just how I would say it to you.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:09]:
Something like that. Yeah. I don't know, Adrienne. Have you noticed that Blaine actually calls this the Change the Odd podcast?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:15]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:17]:
It could be an interesting other meaning.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:20]:
Change the odd.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:20]:
Change the odd. Which one's the odd is the question. That's so good on this. All right. Hey, here's what we got today. A little Q A. Yeah. So if you're watching, listening, whatever you're doing, if you text marriage to 56316, we actually get those questions.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:35]:
And all the questions today have been typed into that. We're almost at a thousand questions. And not today. This is not today's episode. That would be the next three days. So. But if you're driving down the road, something comes to mind. Text marriage at 56316.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:49]:
Completely anonymous. We cannot track you. And so here we go. What are we going to do?
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:53]:
You ready?
Kevin Thompson [00:00:54]:
Who's going first? We got questions.
Blaine Neufeld [00:00:55]:
I can go first? Yeah. One of the questions that we had texted in was when work schedules are unpredictable and someone's gone for days, potentially, how can couples maintain a deep connection instead of just feeling, just defaulting to survival mode?
Kevin Thompson [00:01:11]:
Yeah. So, yeah, I think this goes into the concept of what is the rhythm of us? Right. So next year, book blank. Here we go. Ready? Book block. Next year, the creation of us is coming out. One of the chapters is called the rhythm of us, and it is the idea of how do we create a healthy rhythm of how we connect. Now, here's what we got to recognize.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:31]:
For a majority of couples, we could almost prescribe what this looks like. So in yalls state of life, we could begin to say, hey, depending on what your personalities are like, as you wake up in the morning, just three, four minutes, where you linger just for a moment in bed, cuddle, do that kind of thing, launch out, begin your day, work together, getting the kids ready, all those things. You might have to be gone early for coffee or whatever work you claim that you have in the moment, or no, no, no, no, never, never done. And so you get the kids to school, right? You go about your work days, you do your things, hopefully throughout the day. You're texting each other, you're staying in general contact. Come home at the end of the day, you're cooking dinner. Kids have activities. You do all those Things you, you get the kids to bed, and then hopefully there's a time of connection that is there.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:18]:
You watch a show, you go out on the porch, you drink some coffee, whatever it is, hopefully there's 20 minutes, 30 minutes, maybe even an hour. Then maybe you have your separate time, and then you go to bed. A lot of couples in Yalls state of life, that can be a pretty predictable rhythm. Well, what happens when the firefighter is gone for three days? Well, they can't do it that way. Okay, that's fine. You have to recognize, look, our schedule is going to look different from everybody else's schedule. However, there's a responsibility now to create that rhythm. And what does that look like? So it might be that you have a physical disconnection for several days.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:58]:
All right, Is there a way to communicate some professions? There is, some there isn't. You're an ER doc, you're probably not texting all day long with your spouse. Firefighter. You probably have times in which that's one of the. Actually, that's ironically. Different topic, different question. One of the great dangers, one of the reasons firefighters tend to have worse marriages than some of the other helping professions is because the amount of downtime. And then you have in the firehouse, then you have a group of guys who are there.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:24]:
If one of them has a bad marriage, they can begin to. It is contagious. They can begin to lead people into poor decision making. And it's not uncommon in that line of work for there to be more struggles in marriages. Other things are probably at play as well. But how do we create that?
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:39]:
Can I say the same thing on the other side of the fire? Like, if there's a guy that's listening, be the influence in a good household, right in the firehouse.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:48]:
And in a situation like that where this has changed the odds, not the odd. So the odds in that relationship are a little bit less. Well, how do we change that? So we have to learn what are the dangers, the temptations? What do I need to steer clear of? How do we create more healthy rhythms of connection to make sure that we're not doing that? But in the end, it's, look, in this season of life, how do we create a healthy rhythm? And it's going to change as your kids get older, what that rhythm looks like will change.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:16]:
Do you think there's like an aspect of. If you have different work schedules, like both shift work and you're like opposite. You work nights, you work, whatever. Creating a space where it's like we have to schedule a date night, or we have to schedule a night away, but then does that leave, like, the guilt of you're not with your kids on that time? Like, how do you balance, like, oh, we should probably be spending time as a family, but we also need to work on our marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:42]:
Yes. No, absolutely. And, you know, different couples are gonna have different perspectives on this. I like more important kind of daily, weekly rhythms than saving everything for the date night. So y' all heard me talk about this before. Jenny and I have never really had a consistent date night, so maybe I'm biased here. That's just not that important to us. For other couples that talk about how life changing is, I have seen some statistics done in the past.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:06]:
I can't say it clearly, but I can think about it. Of the idea that an annual vacation actually has a greater impact than a weekly date.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:13]:
Oh.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:14]:
Oh, I like that stat.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:15]:
So the idea.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:16]:
Okay, we are in favor of that stat.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:19]:
So the idea of getting away and what that can do is maybe more impactful. But you still do have that connection, though. Yes, no doubt. And some people, really, some personalities, the date night's gonna be far more important. And so you have to recognize that for me and Jenny, it's not. So it's not that big of a deal. But, yeah, the idea of there should always be this tension, especially when your kids are little. I think of, we want to be with them, and how do we be with them? But at times we need to be away and to recognize this is actually for their benefit, that we're connecting with each other at the same time.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:54]:
To recognize depending on stage of life, of kids. Look, our marriage probably isn't going to be as good at this stage, possibly because the time demands that are actually there. You know, our co worker Kurt Harlow, says, rate your marriage on a scale of 1 to 10, and for every child you have under the age of five, give yourself an extra point. And it just kind of begins to show that, hey, this is a tougher season, and that's okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:18]:
That's crazy. We're at 13.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:23]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:23]:
I'm not following.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:24]:
You got a question?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:25]:
Yes, I do. All right, Kevin, how do you tell your spouse, I've lost myself in parenting and housework without coming across as blame?
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:35]:
Oh, this.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:36]:
That question sounds so genuine. I feel like she tried to read that question in a way that sounded so foreign. She was just a mask.
Blaine Neufeld [00:06:47]:
She didn't look at me, though, for some reason.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:06:49]:
I'm asking Kevin.
Kevin Thompson [00:06:53]:
Yeah, I think. Well, here's the thing. I think you Want to say it in a compassionate way and a non judgmental way. No question. But I think the onus on that is now on the husband to receive that. And I think this goes. This is a much broader issue across the board. If we truly want to create a climate of intimacy and honesty where we're growing with each other, then we really have to get into.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:19]:
Whenever our spouse reveals their heart, to recognize our temptation is to get defensive and don't and instead power through by leaning in and instead of saying, well, I'm doing no, no, tell me more. So allow them to unravel that onion a little bit more to really get to the heart of what's going on. But the temptation now, are you laughing because you've got unraveling onion?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:46]:
No, I'm saying I was thinking, he does this very well.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:49]:
Oh, and I was thinking this morning how unaware I was of our departure. And I just sat in my car. I'm like, I'm ready to go.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:58]:
I was like, oh, I forgot the thing I want to bring. She's like, she couldn't have done the one thing. I was like, you were doing nothing. Why didn't you think of it?
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:04]:
Oh, but she's walking into the car. She's got everything in her hands, and I'm like, looking and like. And the door's locked. She can't even get it open. I'm like, man, I am useful.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:15]:
I sat down with all my stuff and I forgot to close the garage door. He's like, can you close the garage door?
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:19]:
Oh, that was the joke. That was a joke. I clued it into the environment. I'm like, this is crazy.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:25]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:25]:
But I like the fact that you are, are walking out carrying all this stuff and Blaine is in the car thinking she really needs somebody to help her right now. I wish she had a guy that could assist her with this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:38]:
I did make A's today.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:40]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:41]:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:43]:
And look at that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:46]:
Like, I won't be able to get ready until. And then it was like, I should probably make the eggs. You think?
Kevin Thompson [00:08:50]:
Yeah. So I, I, I think, I think you, you create hypothetically in this situation.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:57]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:57]:
So you create the space where these conversations can take place.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:00]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:01]:
And so here'd be the question maybe. Yes. The question back. Not on the date night and the business meeting. The weekly business meeting.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:09]:
That's it.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:10]:
So you do, you do need to have.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:12]:
I think couples are having weekly businesses.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:13]:
This is what he's saying. We should, we should position ourselves in a way. Like going to spend the next 30 minutes talking business. So the expectations of that hangout is on business.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:23]:
I like that idea. I just don't think people.
Blaine Neufeld [00:09:25]:
No, that's okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:29]:
Well done. So that becomes a great question. And it doesn't have to be a formal business meeting, but where does that happen? Because here's what you don't want to do is you don't want to create a date night. And now you have these competing expectations where he is thinking, ah, this is going to be sex. And she's thinking, I will finally be able to have this conversation with him about how whatever, he's not helping with the kids, and then that's conflict guaranteed.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:09:54]:
And then you end in a fight.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:55]:
And no one has sex, nor does anybody help with the kids. But both walk away disappointed. And I think that's the danger of a date night is if you don't think through it properly. You put all the expectations into this moment and they're differing expectations, then you're actually setting yourself up for failure.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:16]:
So if the world was where I could share my expectations of the date night or the day and it's not met with the same. It's better to have that argument or discussion well prior than the date night. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:29]:
Is what I'm saying. Or apparently we need two different meetings.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:32]:
Two different meetings, yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:34]:
And that's what I really think it is. It's, hey, let's go for a walk and let's review the week. I mean, you know, Jenny and I, especially when the kids were little, not as much now, but when the kids were little, it really was, hey, what's this next week look like? All right. Silas has this. Ella has that. I'm going to be gone these times for this. Jenny's like, I got this going on business wise. All right, let's kind of get a lay of the land of what's going on for the week and who needs to do what.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:01]:
And then other times, we're going to go take a walk and this is about. We're dreaming about whatever. There's no pressure on. We just want to connect. That's what the hope actually is. And to recognize those are two different experiences, both important. And the truth of the matter is probably if you don't take care of the business side of things, you probably won't have the connection.
Blaine Neufeld [00:11:19]:
No.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:19]:
You probably got to get the details kind of out of the way because it's a distraction. Yeah. So that you can be freed up. So I would hope that this couple. One overarching picture would create a Climate where these conversations can happen. Now she feels, knows, knows what this can demand from her. A security, a safety to actually be able to say what's going on in her heart, what it's going to demand from him now is a response that is able to not get defensive and instead lean in and learn more about her heart. And then the two of them being able to navigate, okay, is this just a season of life? If so, how can we still make it easier or better or.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:57]:
But are we falling into some patterns that are unhealthy because we're not true partners? Yeah. This is a question of partnership. Yeah, right. You've heard me say before that for me, friend, partner, and lover, it's really a struggle to develop a partnership until you've been married for a little bit of time, kids have come along or careers to now begin to figure this out. And oftentimes what happens here is the couple has to recognize, hey, we're not very good partners. Let's learn. And now what is it going to do?
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:22]:
And I'll share some vulnerability in terms of the lover part, the intimacy part. When I'm there, it's like I'm focused on that. And when she was thinking about 90 different things to do that day, I felt disrespected because she's like, you're not even here. But then I understood, let's solve all of those problems.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:40]:
And there's lots of problems.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:45]:
But once we were able to give respect to her and her mind and her time, then that level of intimacy went way sky hi. And getting nervous thinking about it. But it was. It was an actual practical strategy.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:01]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:01]:
And that's why I share it is. Listen, there are so many like us in that moment of guy wants this. She's over here. You guys got to make this time connect, connect, connect, talk about it, and then you'll have this time. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:14]:
So while there's such an intriguing dynamic within, for most couples, not all, but for most couples, it really is. A woman needs to clear her mind to have sex. A man needs sex to clear his mind. Right. And so to recognize both of these things are true, and then how can we navigate them and how can we create a reciprocal kind of relationship to where the man is going, Look, I really need this. You're not in the space with this right now. Let's work on how can we begin to clear your mind. And then other times, for the woman to think, my mind isn't clear.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:46]:
I'm really not into this right now. You need this. How can we make this happen. And if you can begin to. The danger is when that becomes one sided. When sex just. It's always for him. Generally it becomes always better.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:59]:
It's all for him. Then she has no interest in it whatsoever. And that begins a process where the intimacy erodes. Because if this isn't enjoyable for you, maybe you can do it for a little bit. You're not going to want to do it for long. And then that results in the fight over free frequency. So most of the time, if you can upstream begin to take care of this where you're both enjoying it and then you're both leaning toward each other in a reciprocal way. In most cases the frequency conversation tends to go away.
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:30]:
Right.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:31]:
So I have a question here that's kind of along those lines that maybe we can dive into.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:36]:
You are allowed. You have to text it in for I'm just to marriage to 56316. I'm kidding. Go ahead.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:42]:
That was very funny.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:43]:
Oh wow. Wow. Critique. But the professional.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:47]:
No, no, we're good.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:48]:
What clearly.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:50]:
What do you do when one spouse craves affection and the other just doesn't naturally give it? Which is kind of Blaine and I's natural tendencies.
Kevin Thompson [00:14:58]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:59]:
Which I think we all know. He loves physical affection and touch.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:07]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:07]:
Which most men I think do. It's not true. Generally speaking.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:12]:
I think generally. I think there's changes. Some women could be listening right now. And men, they desperately need physical affection.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:22]:
I think also I get it from my kids. Right. That's the whole like I'm touched all day.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:27]:
But anyway, what's the question?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:31]:
So Kevin, help us.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:33]:
Yeah, no, I think to recognize again, I think this is where Jay Stringer is brilliant. The previous episode with Jay Stringer in which he talks about. Look, high drive, low drive. We always have that conversation regarding intimacy. Right. So here's the question. The man has a high drive for physical connection. The woman has a lower drive for physical connection.
Kevin Thompson [00:15:52]:
Okay, there it is. But to recognize that high drive, low drive plays out in a thousand different other areas within your relationship. There are other places in which you are definitely the high drive spouse. It might be cleanliness. It might be whatever.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:06]:
Yes.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:07]:
Whatever. It might be. And blame becomes the low drive spouse.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:10]:
Correct.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:11]:
So to begin to frame this question into whenever those gaps exist. How do we want to. What's the relationship we want to create? Because here's the thing. If it really does become the low drive spouse sets the tone from an intimacy standpoint. Okay. You'd be totally okay with that? Like, yeah, we're only having sex when you want to have sex. That's great. Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:33]:
So using that logic, the house will only be as clean as whoever your dirtiest child is or blame. Do you want to operate in a house that way? No. What's the expectation? Your expectation is, look, you're never going to have the drive for cleanliness that I have, but I do expect you to understand the way I operate, what I like, and to begin to lean toward that, even as you're going to have to lower kind of some of your expectations because you're not living by yourself. There are other people who are around. So now we take that into every area of marriage. And it's not because here's the danger we get in this mindset of, he's high drive, I'm low drive. This isn't fair. No, no, that's just one area.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:20]:
What about all these other areas? You're the high drive, he's the low drive. So let's frame it first and foremost within that. Then let's begin to figure out what is a good rhythm for us. And not just sexual intimacy, but all other physical affection. And to recognize, you know, what maybe part is. Let's learn what this does for him. What is actually happening within his body whenever you literally hug him, that there is on the couch, instead of sitting at separate ends, that you're actually sitting next to each other. What begins to happen? Well, oxytocin is beginning to flood his brain.
Kevin Thompson [00:17:55]:
We need Barbara Wilson here to explain. All these things are happening, but there is this deep feeling of connection. The tail begins to wag, literally.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:04]:
We're watching a movie the other night as a family and kids. Kids, man. The kids are in between us constantly. They're all the ones. She sat beside me. I felt like a million bucks. I was like, this is fun and it's funny. It's not like she made an effort to do that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:18]:
I'm sure she wanted. And maybe you don't even remember doing it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:18:20]:
I don't know.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:20]:
And. And she wants to be beside me. That makes me feel good. But there's an element where it's just. The kids just interfere with that. And I have to be okay with that.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:31]:
Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:18:31]:
Because there's the season that we're in. I think I recognize that in the moment, but it made me feel like a million bucks. And we're not talking sex at all here. We're talking about sitting on the couch watching a movie. And it's like that spoke as loudly to me as anything else.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:46]:
Yeah. And I Think and then, Blaine, for you to recognize, to make sure Adrienne has these times and spaces where she is all alone. Right. So it's interesting. Jenny and I joke about this all the time, that there's. She and I are exactly alike in this way. There is nothing that relieves our sense of stress like her in bed. So for me, it's me with her in bed, relieves my stress.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:12]:
For her, it's her by herself in bed that relieves her stress. And so to recognize, no, we're actually the exact same on this. We both want you there, and it makes everything better. And so how do I make sure that she has that time to where she's reading and she's relaxing and she's great. How does she make sure that I have that time then with her? And so then, if you're both thoughtful with each other, I do think there's something interesting here, that you can actually create a healthy addiction with each other regarding physical touch, if you will, train yourselves to engage in it. Because here's what happens. As we have again, there has to be trust. There has to be respect for this vulnerability.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:53]:
If there's any sense of distrust, a lack of respect, any abuse, addiction, adultery that's taking place, physical touch can actually make everything worse. But if the climate is safe, if you will begin to, again, not at every moment, but strategically leverage each other's bodies as a way to lower stress and to increase oxytocin, all these positive chemicals, serotonin, all these positive chemicals that can be produced outside of sexual contact, your body will actually begin to crave that. Jenny said:2 days ago, having a stressful day, thinking nothing big at all. But we took Ella back to college and just all those. She's paying bills, all those kind of things. There's national stories that are going on, which can be very difficult from a pastor perspective because the emails are a fly in right of critique of, you didn't do this right, you did this wrong, that kind of thing. And I came home and Jenny said, it's interesting today I just found myself needing a hug from you. Ah, we've reached a good place here where her body is now recognizing, I need this, not sex.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:04]:
She didn't call me up and say, get home now, but it was this loving intimacy. And you can actually train your bodies to be addicted to that. That's a great addiction.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:13]:
That is a great addiction.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:14]:
As opposed to Coca Cola.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:17]:
Looking for sponsorship.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:19]:
Today's broadcast to change the odds is brought to you by Coke Zero.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:23]:
I was thinking about just visually like the tank of high drive versus low drive in whatever area that is. And how I know that if my low drive of cleanliness is. And she's high drive and it's not because she wants to clean, she feels needed that she has to clean. If I help fill the tank, that other tank gets filled quicker.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:44]:
Oh, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:45]:
You know what I'm saying? Just this visual takeaway for me is just like it's practice. Not that I'm doing the cleaning to get what I want. I'm doing the cleaning to fill her tank.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:54]:
Oh, yeah, right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:55]:
And then I know in turn honoring each other, this whole thing just compounds in a great way. And it's just like, can I fill your tank? Yeah, you can. Can I fill yours? Yeah. Boom.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:04]:
Let's go. Yeah. It cannot be solely transactional. I'm doing this to get that. You can't do that. But it's not foolish to recognize. Look, I want this down here. One of the ways to do that is I need to be doing these other things.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:18]:
So that's not foolish at all. Here's an interesting question. Go ahead. The cleaning keeps coming up. Aiden, do you. Do you find yourself whenever you get frustrated cleaning? Like if you're angry, frustrated, stressed?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:22:33]:
No. I don't know. I feel like I've never connected the two, but I know that mess adds to the stress. So if I'm already stressed and I see the mess, it escalates it, and then I lash out and I'm like, we're throwing everything away. Your toys are going in the garbage. Like I. Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:55]:
So here's the challenge for you. So let's get back into personality. Right? So Adrienne agency, dyadic agency. So important and yet unlike an eight agency outward, who can just express anger, no problem. Nines and ones. One's down, regulated. A9 shifts it in the piece. But either way can struggle to kind of express it.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:22]:
What is socially acceptable cleaning? Nobody's ever going to critique anybody for cleaning. Here's my challenge for you. Over this next week, as you're cleaning, I want you to ask yourself, is there something I'm frustrated with?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:23:36]:
Okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:37]:
And begin to. Let's see. Not that it's going to be every time. I'm not saying that at all. You have to clean, things happen. But I wonder if that's not a little bit of a telling. If you're cleaning at a time, you wouldn't be cleaning if it might be a little bit of tell of what's going on inside your heart. And what would it look like if as you're cleaning, you also just.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:58]:
Or even if you took a break and just took a little bit of moment to say, what am I actually feeling right now? And is there a frustration? Is there something that's going on? I think there might be a tie there to some extent.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:11]:
Interesting.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:12]:
Just random.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:12]:
Blaine told me the other day, we were talking, and I. What were we doing? You were like, well, you and your mom love to clean. I was like, I do not love to clean. I love a clean house. I hate the cleaning process. It stresses me out, like, thinking, oh, I have to go clean that. But I try and keep up so that there's not a bigger mess to clean out later.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:34]:
You said that the feeling of a clean house trumps the idea that I.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:37]:
Have to do the work.
Blaine Neufeld [00:24:39]:
But you like the result.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:24:40]:
But I'm happier in a clean home.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:42]:
And that's a very important thing. So years ago, and I get aspects of privilege here. I'm not denying that years ago, Jenny had started her business busy, all these things. And we made the determination we're gonna hire somebody to come in every two weeks just to help some deep clean and that kind of thing. And, like, would not go back from it because of. All right, let's be transparent. Does Jenny listen to the podcast? I'm not.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:08]:
Well, I'm not sure where Jenny.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:14]:
We will get Jenny on.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:16]:
So, hey, if you're a baysider, here's what's interesting. Jenny is one of the main speakers for the business luncheon next month.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:21]:
Oh, she.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:22]:
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:23]:
She skipped the last three marriage events, which. Totally good with that. Very supportive. But. But, yeah, here's what we found is it just gave her such support that. To be honest with you, that sometimes frustrates me because things are in different spots and places. They don't leave my stuff around, and it just. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin.
Blaine Neufeld [00:25:44]:
First off, I think we're learning we're the ones supposed to be cleaning.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:53]:
But I mean, that was one of those things. Because she hates to clean, right? She loves to clean house.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:25:58]:
Yes, yes, right. Some people love cleaning. It's, like, therapeutic for them.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:03]:
Yeah, I love mowing. We talked about this. Mowing a lawn.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:07]:
Jenny. Oh, Jenny loves that too.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:08]:
Loves it.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:09]:
We just love.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:10]:
Anyway, so not to, like, get awkward here, but the next question is, what is the best way to decide who owns what in marriage? So lanes we respect. Resentment doesn't build.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:21]:
Yeah. That's just a negotiation. Just sit down and negotiate. Here's the problem. Most couples never do because that's where it becomes dangerous Is most couples assume whatever their parents did, that's how the division is going to happen within their house. And there's a great deal of danger here because for a lot of men, they grew up in households where dad went to work, mom went to work too, and took care of everything at the house. And so they think as long as they're doing their job, they make eggs once a week. Like everything, suddenly everything's great.
Kevin Thompson [00:26:52]:
Instead of, let's have a sit down conversation. And there's a lot of great things. You can literally just Google out there, a list of household chores, common demands, whenever it comes to a family, and just list them out. And let's begin to negotiate these out. Who's going to take care of what? What does that look like for this season?
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:09]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:09]:
And then it might change in other seasons. And I mean, this is everything from not just kids. Who takes care of the kids? Doctors. But you have the kid. You have kid one, dentist, kid one, general physician. Kid one might have some kind of other medical needs. All right, what about kid two? Who does the dentist, who does the doctor? I mean, those kind of things.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:28]:
And I was thinking too, of like I have, I get the opportunity to meet a lot of people and one of the common themes is this, well, I'm out working and I'm doing this, that and the other thing, and I'm providing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:40]:
Okay, that's a, that's literally a question.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:42]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:42]:
What do you say when your partner thinks I bring home the paycheck so I don't have to help at home?
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:46]:
There you go. That's my question. I didn't text that either.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:51]:
Yeah, no. So I think again, it all plays into this. And so book plug number two in the creation of US next year, next August, we have. Yes, same book. Yeah, there are different books. There is a book coming out next month that we haven't even talked about yet. I haven't even plugged in a single time. But within the creation of US Next year, there's a chapter called the economy of US.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:15]:
Notice I didn't say the money of US Money is a part of a much bigger thing. Nations have economies. Income in, income out, all the resources that are there. So a family has to look at this as the totality of what the economy actually is and not just this very narrow sense of who's making money, who's taking care of the house. That's a foolish way to look at these two things because it's much more complicated than that. And so a great way to go about this. Within this question is. Let's read the gender stereotype into this question that you're asking, which is he's saying, well, I provide, and so you should take care of everything.
Kevin Thompson [00:28:56]:
Okay, great. If that's the way you think it should be. Absolutely. Let's do this. I'm going to go on vacation for two weeks, and you're going to take off work for two weeks, and you've got the kids and you've got the house. And let's see how that goes. And then after that, let's have a very fair conversation of what this should look like. There's also another question within that.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:17]:
Would he be willing to switch roles? All right, so one's going to provide, one's going to take care of the house. Why is it assumed I have to be the one taking care of the house? I may not want that deal if I'm choosing the deal. I want to work outside the home if that's the deal. And so let's have some honest conversation about what this is actually like.
Blaine Neufeld [00:29:34]:
When we had a season before coming down here, there was a quiet of blame, didn't go to work type of time, and the amount of respect I gained for being in the home. The pressures of the children, all the things had increased immensely. Where I think, correct me if I'm wrong, I help far more and way more aware of what is going on in the house, the stresses. Hey, kids, let's just go over here. Give them all whatever those things are. But I had to experience it. So I'm always thinking of the gal that's listening on this and is frustrated because she's saying, that's my hug. Like, that's what I'm dealing with.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:13]:
How can we give practical steps? Or what is the guy really dealing with?
Kevin Thompson [00:30:18]:
Is it pride?
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:19]:
Is it insecurity? What is it that's saying, I do.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:21]:
This, you do that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:22]:
I'm fearful of going into this world. What is that? How do we break that barrier? How do we get the guy to experience it if that's what's needed in.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:30]:
Order to share empathy for his wife? It could be a few things. I think Siegel and Park could call it rigidity. So it is this idea of, I only find identity in this life the way I know it, and it has to be this. So we're going to have to play these specific roles. This is the only role I feel comfortable in playing, only role I understand. So I think everybody has to do it this way, which means if I'm playing this role, you have to play that role. So one is to recognize that's a lack of integration, that's actually a lack of health and it's a coping mechanism for some insecurities that are going on inside. Another aspect is just the practical concept of, look, I feel very capable at work, I feel very capable.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:09]:
I do not feel very capable at home. And specifically with a whole bunch of tasks that I have no experience. It's unfair. And I get it. Jenny's had to teach me how to clean the kitchen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:20]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:21]:
I didn't know right now you do.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:23]:
But she empowered you to become able to do that, I guess is one of my aha moments a little bit is like I think, can the other part of this equation empower the person to do more at home and help them instead of just expecting it and having that being great division.
Kevin Thompson [00:31:40]:
Yeah. You have every right to think I shouldn't have to do this, they should already know. Or I grieve that they don't. But let's deal with reality. Where are they? Let's meet them there and now, what are some things that we can begin to do to make it feel like more of a true partnership rather than a one side? Because here's the danger of the question that's coming up here is this is a parent child relationship. A 13 year old boy expects his mom to do everything around the house even as he lives his life. Understandably. So a mom's going to happily do that.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:17]:
Well, when that 13 year old is now 43, he should have a different mindset and to recognize, look, this is a much bigger picture of what's going on and how do we go about negotiating this out and it has to be something that we're never going to get perfect, but then we're going to come back and revisit it six months from now, a year from now. This is one of the conversations I encourage couples to have every year on vacation. Take some time out, take a part of your vacation and say, hey, let's have a business discussion. Is there any part of our relationship right now where you feel taken advantage of? Well, this would have the space now for this person to say, you know what? Yeah, I love you and I know you love me and man, you provide and I'm so grateful for that. I don't feel like the workload is equal right now because here's what's going on. I hear and I get the idea guys have busy jobs, that it's hard to transition from work into the house. But I will hear sometimes of she's home all day with little kids and he comes home and expects an hour to wind down. Well, okay.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:20]:
When does she get that?
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:21]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:22]:
You know when your time to wind down was your drive home. Now I get. And I've had some couples that say this.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:29]:
I just think that's insane.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:30]:
I've had some couples who say this who literally they negotiate it out. The husband comes home and for 10 minutes he can sit in the driveway.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:37]:
Oh, sure.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:38]:
And process.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:38]:
For 10 minutes. Take it. You do that all the time.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:41]:
Process.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:41]:
I'm constantly. No, I. Let me rephrase that. I sometimes check his location constantly.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:50]:
From 4:30 to 5pm he's already home.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:33:54]:
He's been home for like a little while, but he's been in his car. Yeah. You're on the phone.
Blaine Neufeld [00:33:58]:
And I'm trying to wrap a phone call because I don't want to walk into the chaos. The. The fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:02]:
Yes.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:03]:
Right. Without having my attention on the fun. So. Because I've learned over times when I go and I try to continue to do what I do, A, I get frustrated and B, it doesn't help the situation. So just wait your turn and then.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:34:16]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:17]:
Myself and then get in there. Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:19]:
So. So years ago, Jenny pointed this out. She was brilliant for doing so. It greatly changed how we operate. And it was that concept of, look, whenever you walk in this house on the phone, it. You might as well not be here.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:31]:
Correct.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:31]:
And then it's frustrating the kids, it's frustrating me. I would rather you sit in the driveway and wrap up the conversation. And so now my buddies know specifically on the phone with them, it's work, it's different. But I'll pull in the driveway and I'll say, hey, home, see you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:34:45]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:46]:
And literally we cut the conversation that quick because it's not work conversation, but the idea of I'm not going to walk in the house now, ironically, now that the kids are older, I could walk in and have an hour long conversation and nobody's going to care. Jenny's working. Right. Ella's at college. Who knows where Silas is. He's in the basement or whatever. And I mean I can. It's not a big deal at all.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:06]:
So it's a season specific kind of thing, but a brilliant conversation to have.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:10]:
Yeah. I think that there's. And I want freedom for this. There's a lot of guys because I just hear the stories. I've been there where I had so much validation at work that it misplaced my desire to be at home. Right. And so it's like, be acknowledged of that. Like, be aware of that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:35:27]:
Sort of like, where are you finding your joys? Because it's very dangerous when it's only at work. Find the joys at home. See how you can contribute. See how you can find happiness.
Kevin Thompson [00:35:38]:
And to also recognize, look, if your spouse stays at home to work and you go to work, you're getting a lot of validation. They're not. So how can we make sure that she's now getting the validation that she deserves that even begins to somewhat equal what you're experiencing? We talk about this all the time of unfairly. I mean, I'll get through here on the weekend and people will applaud. You'll be out in the courtyard. Oh, my goodness. That was so. I'm gonna lie to you, but it was so great, all those kind of things.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:08]:
It's not like whenever I walk in that Jenny rises from her desk in applause.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:14]:
There he is.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:14]:
There he is. Welcome home. Right?
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:16]:
The leader of the home.
Kevin Thompson [00:36:18]:
So you do have to recognize that within yourself, there's a danger of the tear, but you also have to recognize that for your spouse, as much as I like this foundation, she needs it too. How do we make sure that she gets it?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:29]:
We've gone through that because I stay home with the kids. And there's been so many times, too, even spiritually, he's like, I'm having all these great conversations, and I'm being so filled up. I'm like, cool. I'm not. So I'm being sucked dry, literally sometimes, you know, like. So I think that's just a good.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:50]:
Again, I think it's also seasonal. Yeah, for sure. But I think our awareness of that is growing.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:36:54]:
Oh, yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:36:55]:
And it's like, it's so fun. You're talking about the partnership is the tough part. You know, this. We're discovering our partnership far more than ever before. And it's so fun, right, to, like, see her, you know, we're in a rooted group the other night, and it's like to see her finally being in my little circle of, you know, talking about the Bible with people and all these pastoral things, she's elevating, and she's the voice, and I'm like, oh, this feels so good that a. I don't have to be it and to see her growth, and it's like, amazing.
Kevin Thompson [00:37:23]:
Yeah. Early on. Hang on. Let's be our last question. But early on in marriage, it's interesting because in a church world, oftentimes your only day off is Saturday right here. It's not because we work on Saturday, but. But what day do weddings happen?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:37:41]:
Saturday.
Kevin Thompson [00:37:42]:
Saturday. So it wasn't uncommon at all for me. You know, I would, you know, do 20 weddings a year. So, you know, 15 to 20 Saturdays a year, my one day off that we're actually all home as a family. And that was taken up. And so just early on, it just came from the idea, look, whatever I get paid for this wedding, let's say it's a couple hundred bucks, I get paid for this wedding, that money is going toward us because she's making just as big of a. She's actually making a bigger sacrifice than I am. I get to show up, go wedding, leave.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:10]:
Like, she's here with the kids having to negotiate everything. And so instead of, oh, poor me, look at how I'm having to work more. No, no, no, it's. She's having a sacrifice. And so how can we make sure that we feel a partnership even in this? And so this became our vacation money. This became money for us to spend because we are both making a sacrifice on our days off to now make this happen. And so I think to constantly make sure, especially ministry wise, of this is something we're doing. This is, yes, I get to be on stage.
Kevin Thompson [00:38:41]:
Jenny doesn't want to be on stage ever. But we are doing this together because if, first of all, if we're not married, it's going to be a very difficult podcast for us to do right. Then it will become change the eye. But instead view this as a partnership in what's going on. Okay, we got time for one more. Okay.
Blaine Neufeld [00:38:59]:
And this flows in beautifully. And it's a question I think I get super passionate about. For couples dreaming about the future, what do you do when your visions no longer align? Or maybe they're being separated? Or maybe there's I have a dream and you have a dream. Good, go get it. And it's like, where's our dream?
Kevin Thompson [00:39:19]:
It's a great question. And I think, one, it shows some honesty that's going on, which is a powerful thing. But two, I don't want couples necessarily freak out because the question then becomes, is there a third way? Is there a place that these two dreams actually somewhat overlap? Are they even competing? They may not even be competing. Instead, literally, as you're pursuing that and I'm pursuing this, where the common ground becomes is in the support we're providing each other as we pursue our dreams. And the unity and the power can actually be in that, not in the specifics of what the dreams actually look like. But then there's also the concept of, okay, how are we dreaming together? All right, this is what you want to accomplish. That's what you want to accomplish. Great.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:09]:
What do we want to accomplish? Who do we want to be? What's the life that we want to create? What does this look like? And how do these two things, I think, fold in underneath a larger picture of what is us, who we are. And so. And then beyond that, if they then continue to still struggle to find all that, this is a powerful place to get with a counselor. Come on a retreat. Let's do something to where we're going to go in. We're going to recognize, hey, we're not real comfortable with what this feels like. How Is there a way? Is this a sign that we're actually going different directions? If so, how do we stop that? Or how do we change that? But more importantly is how do we unify these two, what seem like detached ideas into an overarching purpose for both of us? And I think it's extremely possible. But people can kind of, at the surface level, freak out, like, oh, these feel radically different.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:02]:
Are we no longer aligned?
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:04]:
Not necessarily. Yeah. And like, I know we talked about it in terms of a family value system. Like, we have our list of family values where some of those goals need to kind of fit into our direction.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:14]:
Couples can do that too.
Blaine Neufeld [00:41:16]:
Right. And it's just like God wired us individually in our own giftings. We can go off and do great things, but there should be some sort of common goal as a couple.
Kevin Thompson [00:41:26]:
No, absolutely. You need to be headed in the same direction. If nothing else, I think in a situation, let's say Jenny and I were in this situation, where's the commonality? You know, what the commonality is for us is I actually want her dream more than she wants her dream, and she actually wants my dream more than I want my dream. And we're so unified now in that that we're trying to help each other make their dreams come true, that there's a power. And it's almost like from this foundation come these two individual expressions. And the individual expressions, in the end, aren't really even that important. It's the unity that we now have and pursuing after those together.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:03]:
And like I look at our. One of your dreams was to have a husband that led the home spiritually. And so even in that, now that's becoming far more a thing than it was eight years ago because of my maturity of faith and all those good things. But as that's happening, the amount of sacrifice that she's had to make in some of her dreams is tough. But at the same time, this was our dream. And now our other dream is now she's elevating and now suddenly it's like. But it's now suddenly going like this because there's just been this back and forth of acknowledging we want to help marriages. That's one of the things that we want to do.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:38]:
How we do that could be very different. She could be doing it through comedy, I could be doing it through coffees, all the different things. But then we come back together and our best days are like when we're chatting about kingdom minded things together. We get really excited. I didn't have to be in the room, but I know that our common goal is we want to have God honoring marriages. And it's just fun.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:58]:
They're not that goal.
Blaine Neufeld [00:42:59]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:59]:
But you are clearly transitioning out. You're transitioning out of the baby season.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:43:04]:
Yeah.
Kevin Thompson [00:43:05]:
And you're starting to see the light of. Oh, my goodness. The possibility that can be here. Right.
Blaine Neufeld [00:43:12]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:43:12]:
And there's, there's, there's dark clouds on the horizon about some other seasons of life too. And you're going to navigate those. But there's an excitement of what now can be. You couldn't have done this. Yeah. In the previous season. Didn't need to. But now's the time and the excitement.
Kevin Thompson [00:43:26]:
That's actually. All right. Hey, text MARRIAGE to 56316. We're actually going to shoot another episode on some of the rest of these questions. Would love to include yours in that. Marriage to 56316. And until next time, don't forget, change the odds because marriage and family were.
Blaine Neufeld [00:43:39]:
Never meant to be a game of chat.
Kevin Thompson [00:43:41]:
Oh, there we go. See you next time.