Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:00]:
Do you think also, like, the spirit of religion could play into that, where it's like, it's all rules and no relationship? Like, we. They weren't taught to, like, talk to the Holy Spirit. It was like, you obey and fear, you know, because in a sense, that was kind of how we grew up. Like, very conservative upbringing. And we've now, like, really experienced, I'd say, in our 30s, like, a true relationship. And it's just been so fruitful and beautiful, and together we're like, yeah, we're experiencing it. But I feel for the people who never get past the religion and are kind of stuck in it, because I feel like religion, like, blocks vulnerability. And how can you be vulnerably intimate with the Lord if you're not gonna be willing to go there?
Paul Friesen [00:00:43]:
Yeah, it really is a works. It becomes a works performance.
Virginia Friesen [00:00:47]:
Yeah, performance.
Paul Friesen [00:00:49]:
That if I follow all the rules, then I'm good, but there's not joy in that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:00:55]:
There's no experience.
Paul Friesen [00:00:56]:
And. And I don't think most kids walk away from the Lord because of doctrine. It's because of experience. They didn't see it. I think Ray was the first one that I heard say this. If you've got the joy of the Lord in your heart, would you mind notifying your face?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:01:10]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul Friesen [00:01:12]:
And it's just that it doesn't mean we're laughing all the time, but there should be a vitality. Our kids should want to grow up and be like mom and dad. Have a marriage, like mom and dad. Not, I can't wait till I get out of the house.
Blaine Neufeld [00:01:24]:
It's convicting, but it's also inspiring because I think in our walk, like, as I told you a little bit about my story, I'm this hockey guy. So therefore, my identity is in hockey and performance over there. And I'm supposed to come into ministry now, but I don't look like the rest of them. How do I fit in? And people have affirming, just be yourself. Like God designed you to do you in that way for his glory. So he's asking you to come into this ministry and this mission, he's anointed it, it's his, and he's asking you to step in as you. And so that was extremely freeing. And.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:01]:
But then again, in the world that we lived, vulnerability, authenticity, you know, hey, we fought this morning. Oh, my gosh, don't talk about that. Like, how. And we've discovered now by being authentic, this is an authentic fight. We love each other. We know on the other side that we're going to be okay. It gives so much freedom to other couples to say, oh, actually, we fought. I didn't know you guys fought.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:25]:
And we're not doing it to discount the other person. We're actually doing it to lift up marriage, which you guys see a lot of the time. So it's actually, to me, it's encouraging because we feel God has put us in this lane of marriage, put us in this lane of ministry. And we are very authentic in front of our kids.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:02:44]:
Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:02:44]:
And I can see our kids enjoying now. There is some resentment towards the busyness of it. And I'm a very extroverted person. And one of the stories was we invite a lot of people into our house. Too many for my family to say, okay, hang on, dad, we need a break. But because God gave me the ears to hear my family say, put a pause in this for a minute, dad. We love it, but too much. And I was saying, family number one.
Blaine Neufeld [00:03:12]:
I'm thankful for that moment because ministry will happen with or without us. It's our enjoyment to be a part of it. My family is my family. That's my core. That's my crew.
Virginia Friesen [00:03:23]:
Well, because honestly, if you lose your family in the midst. We've often said that if 2,000 people said, oh, my goodness, your ministry changed our marriage, but our children were neglected in the process, and they lost heart for the Lord, we were inconsolable. We would have missed the main event.
Paul Friesen [00:03:42]:
I want to hop back just to authenticity, because I think a lot of people today are saying, just be authentic. And so we fought today, but that's where it ends. And so everybody says, oh, I feel good. I fought today, too. But what you demonstrated today is I think we need to be authentic, but we need to give hope that you don't, then just leave it there. Like that's. Being authentic isn't helpful unless there's hope that there is restoration or whatever comes on the other side.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:14]:
And we've discovered that the only reason we're getting there is God's awakening to us, that we're seeing this knowledge, we're seeing this wisdom. And it kind of comes back down to the foundation. To your point of just. My own relationship with. I've been strengthened by Jesus to know I'm good with him. I've always wanted her affirmation and her love. I still will want that. And.
Blaine Neufeld [00:04:38]:
But it's not number one. So even though she's my number one, he is now number one. Which that wasn't the case. Her opinion of me was Number one. And I scurried around on how to gain that approval. It is exhausting. Yeah, it is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:51]:
And you could never do it.
Virginia Friesen [00:04:53]:
That's exactly right. I can't.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:04:55]:
I don't even know myself. I'm like, I want this today, but I want that tomorrow.
Paul Friesen [00:05:00]:
It is very confusing.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:01]:
And now a question for you. Would you say that I am more attractive now because God is my number one?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:08]:
Oh, yeah. And that was always my prayer. I was like, I want, like a spiritual leader. And I would say when we got married, it wasn't the case. Not that you weren't, like, a good guy and you weren't a good Christian.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:18]:
I love Jesus. I'm a Christian, I'm baptized, all this stuff.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:19]:
But like I said, the intimacy that we have now with the Lord wasn't for both of us.
Virginia Friesen [00:05:23]:
Right?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:25]:
So, yeah, 100%.
Virginia Friesen [00:05:27]:
So you bring up a really, really important point, and that is. You know, I'm sure other people had said it before this, but the movie Jerry Maguire that came out Sometime in the 90s, we actually never saw the movie, but we heard this quote from it regularly when he said, you complete me.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:45]:
Oh, yes.
Virginia Friesen [00:05:46]:
And, boy, that just pumped right into a huge distortion, which is all I have to do is find the right person, and then I am complete.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:05:55]:
Like soulmates.
Blaine Neufeld [00:05:55]:
Yeah.
Virginia Friesen [00:05:56]:
And so Christians across the board were believing hook, line, and sinker. All I have to do is find the right guy, and then I'm gonna be complete. And there's several problems with that. Number one is Colossians tells us, no, no, no. Our completeness is found in Christ. And then when you follow that to its logical conclusion, you realize that because we're imago deo, we are image bearers of God, that they're in our design. Part of our DNA is that no human can satisfy the deepest places in me. And that's where so many marriages get into trouble, is you just don't meet all of my needs.
Virginia Friesen [00:06:34]:
Well, he was never designed to meet all of your needs. Which isn't to say that there aren't all sorts of places for growth and all of the rest. But if a human could meet my deepest needs, ultimately I would have no need for Jesus. Right. So it's a reminder constantly that, as you say, our pursuit of Jesus needed to supersede our attempt to love each other. Well, that became the. The operating system, if you will, that if we were pursuing Christ by spending time with him and His Word, by praying together, which is a commitment that we made the day we got married, that we would Pray every single day together. And interestingly, when we were writing our doctoral theses, one of the quotes we came across a statistic was that the divorce rate stands between somewhere 35 to 50%, depending on who you read and trust.
Virginia Friesen [00:07:28]:
But for couples who pray together daily, the divorce rate falls to less than 1%. Wow. And I think that's a compelling argument for making sure that you make a really high priority of actually connecting through prayer.
Paul Friesen [00:07:42]:
And I think it shows why it's so difficult.
Blaine Neufeld [00:07:44]:
Yeah.
Paul Friesen [00:07:45]:
Because Satan knows that when a couple is connecting in prayer, it's just an intimate. Relationally, it's intimate. It can lead to intimate physical. Physical involvement. But it. It connects a couple, and he hates that.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:07:58]:
Yeah.
Paul Friesen [00:07:58]:
And so, you know, one prays too long, one's a night person, one's a more important. I mean, everything is thrown in there that we don't spend time together.
Virginia Friesen [00:08:07]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:07]:
It's something like, kind of embarrassingly, we're not good at, but it's something we
Virginia Friesen [00:08:11]:
always like, we should do that more.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:12]:
But I think it's so, like, vulnerable, you know, and that's like, a struggle for me. I'm working through vulnerability in a lot of different areas of my life. And it's just like, Was it uncomfortable in the beginning for you? Is it kind of awkward? Or were you guys just like, we're prayer warriors right from the beginning?
Blaine Neufeld [00:08:31]:
I've seen couples like us where it is, but then there's hope. Because maybe it's a muscle that you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:08:35]:
Oh, I believe 100% it's a muscle. You just gotta get past that.
Virginia Friesen [00:08:38]:
Cause it's interesting. The thing we long for most when we get married is that we would be known, loved, and accepted fully for who we are. But in order for that to happen, we have to be committed to transparency and vulnerability. So for many couples, they never really achieve that because either they're hiding things or they refuse to be vulnerable. The transparency has a lot of layers over it, et cetera. I think it's definitely something that can be developed, a muscle that you can absolutely begin to exercise. And I don't really ever remember feeling uncomfortable praying in front of Paul or praying with Paul. But I would say that we had the garden variety realities that many couples have, which we're too busy, or I fell asleep, or, you know, we prayed differently or whatever.
Paul Friesen [00:09:27]:
Oh, we're very different. I mean, I go to prayer. God, today, got, you know, this meeting needs this. I pray. And Virginia awakens. Father, As I look out, I see the cumulus clouds, and I see the Blue sky and their beauty. And she goes on for 10 minutes and she hasn't even started praying, according to me.
Virginia Friesen [00:09:46]:
Yeah, right.
Paul Friesen [00:09:46]:
You're like, get to the business preliminary, you know, and by then I'm asleep and she's looking over your spiritual pygmy. But. And so, and I will say this, and this is true across the board in so many ways, but especially prayer. When men fail in their workplace, they work harder. When men fail at home, they quit.
Virginia Friesen [00:10:07]:
Wow.
Paul Friesen [00:10:08]:
So, okay, I won't pray again because it's embarrassing me. Feel like a failure.
Virginia Friesen [00:10:13]:
Wow.
Paul Friesen [00:10:13]:
Or I won't, whatever. And then we withdraw because men hate failing, which makes them look like they're not engaged.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:23]:
Right.
Paul Friesen [00:10:24]:
But they may want to be engaged, but they're afraid she'll criticize what they say, so they back up, which makes her more critical because he's not engaged, which makes him farther away. And you hear the torches.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:36]:
We're kind of the opposite. I would be the one who would shut down if I felt like I was failing.
Virginia Friesen [00:10:40]:
Fear of failure.
Blaine Neufeld [00:10:41]:
I'd be like, let's try it again. Okay. I don't know what I'm even saying.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:10:46]:
Do you guys pray at night then? Or what's your routine? Night before bed?
Virginia Friesen [00:10:49]:
Yeah. But a piece of advice we give to couples because. Especially because a male is the spiritual leader in the home, that translates often into. So he's the one responsible for all the spiritual developer families. That means he's in charge of praying. And we just say, you know what, let's just offload that. Let's say that he's responsible for praying, for initiating prayer on the odd nights. And she's.
Virginia Friesen [00:11:14]:
Or mornings, whenever you decide. And she's responsible for initiating prayer on the even.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:19]:
There you go.
Virginia Friesen [00:11:20]:
And it just sort of divides it. And then if somebody misses a night, the other person can't say, well, do you know today is an odd day? You just sort of know your day is coming, even's coming tomorrow. And then you take initiative. And so it's kind of that getting back on the horse, shared ownership. And we've found that for more couples, they at least pray a lot more than they used to.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:11:43]:
Right.
Paul Friesen [00:11:43]:
And I think sometimes we think it has to be a half hour. And, you know, we have to quote scripture and all this. We tell a lot of couples, before you leave or part in the morning, just turn to each other and say, what do you have coming today? What could I pray for? And the other says, well, I've got this. Okay, whatever you. Let's just pray And a minute later you're kissing and you're out the door. And then you get bonus points. At the end of the day you say, how did that go? Because that shows you really were interested.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:11]:
Also a good point of connection to start your day. Exactly.
Virginia Friesen [00:12:14]:
Yeah. Well, the other question we really encourage every couple to ask is how can I serve you today? What would be most helpful for you?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:23]:
You're very good at that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:24]:
Yeah. You are good at it too. Do Babe.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:27]:
I'm not. I'm not.
Paul Friesen [00:12:30]:
I'm not.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:31]:
I'm always thinking about me and the kids and I'm like, he's pretty self sufficient.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:34]:
Very rarely thinks of herself. She is constantly thinking of the world that is. And I am pretending that I've thought of everyone and I'm really making sure you're good. I'm assuming you're taking care of the rest.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:12:48]:
Because I am.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:49]:
Yeah.
Paul Friesen [00:12:50]:
Which is a huge.
Blaine Neufeld [00:12:52]:
I got 1%. She's got 99.
Virginia Friesen [00:12:53]:
No, no, no, no, no.
Paul Friesen [00:12:55]:
Which is a huge responsibility. I mean I think we just can't minimize.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:00]:
No.
Paul Friesen [00:13:00]:
That going out the door and working is way easier than way somebody who's caring for especially little ones. And they're non stop and non affirming.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:12]:
That's. Yes. They kind of suck the life right out of you. Love them.
Virginia Friesen [00:13:15]:
But some days. Well, just hold on. It'll eventually come around to you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:21]:
Okay.
Virginia Friesen [00:13:22]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:23]:
We're starting to see that. We're getting ready.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:25]:
You're ready for it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:26]:
Yeah. They're grown up. Yeah. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:29]:
That's great.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:13:29]:
It's been good.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:29]:
So what you don't know, babe. Jerry Maguire. Show me the money. Football movie. And we're going to get to some tea here. Adrienne loves the tea. And one of the unique ministries you guys have had has been into professional athletes lives. And I think of.
Blaine Neufeld [00:13:44]:
I often think of identity. I have history with professional athletes as well. And. And you shared a story. If you're okay with sharing it, that the uniqueness of a scenario of professional athlete validation identity. Here I am a hero to. I walk through the door and there's a different world.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:04]:
Like at home.
Blaine Neufeld [00:14:05]:
At home. Right. And so would you share?
Paul Friesen [00:14:08]:
Well, just, you know, the husband comes home from the game and she says you didn't take out the trash. And he says. He doesn't say it verbally to himself. Do you know who I am?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:19]:
Right.
Paul Friesen [00:14:19]:
Yes. I just won the game. And she says, yeah. And take out the trash.
Virginia Friesen [00:14:23]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:14:23]:
You're still a man here.
Paul Friesen [00:14:25]:
It's not our status. And worth can't be out there, no matter what it is. Yeah, it really is. Our first commitment is marriage. Now, I think if you go into professional sports, the wives that were wise basically kissed their husbands goodbye, and 20 weeks later, they expected to see them again. It was like they were out in the military and they were gone. And those are the wives and marriages that made it really well. Because every time he was home was unexpected bonus.
Paul Friesen [00:14:58]:
Rather than, I resent you because you're gone so much.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:15:02]:
Right. So it was like a mentality type of thing.
Paul Friesen [00:15:05]:
It's a mentality shift. And then his challenge, though, is when he has opportunity, he doesn't go out with other team members and, you know, go partying or do whatever, hang out with them.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:16]:
He.
Paul Friesen [00:15:16]:
He says, I'm off. I can be home.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:19]:
This is my number one.
Paul Friesen [00:15:20]:
Then he's fully engaged at home. I think that's so much expectations. That makes a huge difference there. Wow.
Blaine Neufeld [00:15:28]:
And I'm interested because I think no matter the occupation, because I see pro athletes as they do a job, we idolize them. Human nature around us is while these are actors, entertainers, we assume because. Because we see them on a screen, we've pictured them in a certain way, but we know deep down they are simply a human being. How do you work through that? Because I think it's very similar to a business mind, a businessman, business gal, filing, tons of validation here at the workplace. I come home and I say, don't, you know, I'm providing. Why are you not doing this? And this? And then she's just simply saying, do you not see me? Like, what can you guys say into that?
Virginia Friesen [00:16:10]:
Well, I'm just gonna add ministry into that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:11]:
Ministry. Thank you.
Virginia Friesen [00:16:13]:
Because especially when you're with a big church movement and you have a lot of FaceTime and people all think you walk on water, but there's a huge rate of failure in Christian marriages. Ministry, marriages from the same thing, of neglect. So I think that there has to just be this. When we worked with the New England Patriots for 22 years, we led their couples study, and though we know that they're one of the most loved teams in America.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:45]:
Loved or hated, either way.
Paul Friesen [00:16:46]:
That's a little sarcasm.
Virginia Friesen [00:16:48]:
That was very sarcastic.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:49]:
Okay.
Virginia Friesen [00:16:49]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:49]:
I didn't catch that.
Blaine Neufeld [00:16:50]:
Yeah, people didn't like it.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:53]:
Okay.
Virginia Friesen [00:16:53]:
Okay.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:16:53]:
Thank you.
Virginia Friesen [00:16:54]:
People don't like highly successful teams. Got it. The Patriots were not the favorite team for many, many years while they were at the top of the game. But one of the things that we just stressed every Thursday night at our couples study was that marriage was going to outlast the NFL.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:17:13]:
Right.
Virginia Friesen [00:17:13]:
And that if you don't take care of your marriage here, it's probably not going to be there when you get out of the game. And interestingly, the studies were telling us then that the average NFL career is only three and a half years.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:17:27]:
That's it.
Virginia Friesen [00:17:29]:
And that by the time the guy is no longer playing, somewhere between 70 and 80% of them will be unemployed, broke and or divorced. That there is just not a lot of character values necessarily that drive that. Beyond that, this is all about me and I'm so great. So we kind of just kept saying, you can't build. You can't believe the press about you. We had a couple players who said, we just don't ever read anything that's written about us. We don't watch it on television. We have to protect ourselves from getting swept away from things that are highly inflated, which I think was just a really wise, wise thing.
Virginia Friesen [00:18:15]:
And the guys that were really committed. Paul did a couple of marriages for our guys over the years we were with the Patriots, and 201, the ones that were really surrendered to Christ just had a very clear understanding that their identity was not found on the football field. That it really. It wasn't just. I think it's been kind of popular more in recent years to say that. But these guys really did live it. They really did. They embraced it and they said, listen, we got nothing, but that's better than following Christ, even though the world tells us.
Virginia Friesen [00:18:51]:
But the other side of that is, so these guys have lots of money and they have lots of fame and they have lots of success. They have lots of cars, they have lots of homes. But there was no shortage of couples that were coming to us for counseling. And I think sometimes we have this illusion that, oh, man, if we never had any financial problems or if we could only live in the house we wanted to do, if we could only send our kids to the school we wanted to, everything would be copacetic. But the truth of the matter is that people with all of that have the same problems as people who don't have that, which tells you it's organically part of human nature. Marriage is the greatest call to denying yourself of any relationship that you can engage in.
Paul Friesen [00:19:34]:
Well, it's a whole nother podcast, but it is the whole area of the husband, no matter what he does, the number one person he is looking towards is his wife. If he goes out the door and knows that she respects him and thinks he's true, he can take on the world that day. But if he goes out, why don't you? You never are. Doesn't matter what happens, he's a failure. He's going to feel that. Because we as men want to be respected more than anything else. And most women want to be cherished. They want to be seen as a priority.
Paul Friesen [00:20:08]:
And in the NFL or where business, if, if business is number one, you're not going to be cherishing your wife and the wife is most likely not going to be respecting the husband and being respectful. And that's it. You know, there's only one relationship, human relationship. There's a one relationship and that's husband, wife. You're never called to be one with your children. You're never called to be one with your church, with your job. Just this one. So this is the priority.
Paul Friesen [00:20:36]:
Relationship, human relationship.
Blaine Neufeld [00:20:40]:
It also is. It's freeing and exciting to hear how you could also have your cake and eat it too. Meaning you can have a wonderful marriage and be successful in football business. All the influence, all the things. It's not one or the other because I'm assuming there's tons of pressure. Well, you better go all in on football. To be successful, you gotta make all the sacrifices. Meaning you're second, right? Where it's like, no, it's actually encouraging for us to hear that you can have a great marriage and all the things God wants you to do in your ministry and your football career, etc.
Blaine Neufeld [00:21:16]:
Etc.
Paul Friesen [00:21:17]:
Yeah. Let me tell you about a lunch we had just a year ago with an retired NFL player, somebody who worked for a huge Internet company, media company, I'll just say. And somebody who was. What was the third person? Something else.
Virginia Friesen [00:21:42]:
Musician.
Paul Friesen [00:21:42]:
What? Musician. Yes, thank you, musician. And we're just having lunch. Most of them didn't know each other. And as we were talking, the NFL retired NFL player said he had just been asked to be a coach in the NFL. And he said, I just turned it down. I didn't even go to the interview. He said, I said, listen, I've got a wife and I've got children and I can't be an NFL coach and be the husband that I should be and father.
Paul Friesen [00:22:15]:
And that was it. He said, you know, I'm happy to take another role as a consultant, but I can't do that. The musician was given this ridiculously large label if he traveled 265 days a year, but he couldn't take his family with him. And he just said, sorry, I can't do it. And the guy who worked for the tech Company. Thank you. Tech company. He just didn't have any time with his kids.
Paul Friesen [00:22:43]:
And he just said, you know, I could be known around the world, but I'm going to lose my kids and maybe my marriage. And he walked away from it.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:53]:
Wow.
Virginia Friesen [00:22:53]:
But I want to tag on that that there are seasons.
Blaine Neufeld [00:22:56]:
Yes.
Virginia Friesen [00:22:57]:
So all of these things can't happen at the same time necessarily. And I think that's a really important thing. When we went back to New England, we had lived on Catalina island for a number of years. And we went back for Paul to do a year of graduate school at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. And, and I had heard that wives could go for free. So like I love a deal. I mean, I'm still thrilled with Costco samples. So free them on, right? Yeah, yeah.
Virginia Friesen [00:23:21]:
So I went up to register for two courses. Cause I could go for free. Our children were 6, 8 and 11 and we decided to homeschool them that year. We were Californians transplanted to New England. We felt like going to school would stand in the way of education. So we were gonna come. I went up and I said, I just wanna register for these two classes. She said, oh, I'm so sorry.
Virginia Friesen [00:23:40]:
And she said, so that'll be X amount of dollars. And I said, oh no, no, I'm here for the wife go free program. And she said, oh, I'm so sorry, but you have to be full time enrolled also. You can't be a part time student and take advantage of that. And I said, well, I can't be full time cause my husband's full time and our children are little and Rob's going. She said, I'm so sorry, but that's how the grant was written. I came out later to find out that the grant was for getting missionary couples out on the field faster so that it was a bogo they could go at the same time and get out there. Okay.
Virginia Friesen [00:24:07]:
So as I trudged back to our on campus apartment to our daughters with no classes registered, I just intuitively knew that even though I was walking away from something that was a little bit hard to say no to at that point, that the timing just wasn't right. It just wasn't right. Well, fast forward, that was in 91. In 2003, we were coming to the end of our commitment to this church. We were directing family ministries for and looking to launch home improvement ministries, which is what we are currently doing. And we met with our mentoring professor from Gordon Conwell and he said, you guys both need to get your Doctor of Ministry degrees because now you're going outside of an area where you're really well known, and for some people, that's going to make a difference. He said, you both have your master's, right? And Paul was very happy to say, of course I do. And I told him the story that I just told you.
Virginia Friesen [00:25:01]:
And I said, he knew us very well. He saw us teaching together at church. He knew we were counseling together. We had a very personal relationship with him. I said, I've taken several classes just by audit, but I don't have my master's degree. And without missing a beat, he said, well, you probably don't know this, but we can invite one person into the cohort that doesn't have the prerequisite master's degree, but whose life experience, we feel, prepares them to directly enter the program. And we're going to ask you to be that student. Wow.
Virginia Friesen [00:25:33]:
And I want to tell you, it
Paul Friesen [00:25:35]:
really ticked me off. I had to work on my back.
Virginia Friesen [00:25:37]:
Oh, my gosh, it shook me up every time I tell that story, because it was just this moment from heaven. I feel like God just pulled back the curtains and said, you made the right decision in 1991, and I'm making a way now for you to be equipped for the next season of your ministry. And from that came a life rule that I've taught many, many places and we apply in our lives to this day. And I say this especially to you. When you're in the throes of raising your young children, add 10 years to where you are now. So our children were 6, 8, and 11. They would have been 16, 18, and 21. And from that vantage, look back and ask yourself, what will you most regret having missed or another way is standing here and looking forward 10 years? What won't be there in 10 years that is available now? And to be honest, I feel like we grab at the golden ring the first time it comes through.
Virginia Friesen [00:26:34]:
Oh, man. If I miss this opportunity, and I think there are very few things in life that fall into that category, a professional athlete actually is one of those, because you do have a limited window. Right. But I think for all the rest, for advanced degrees, for travel, for developing hobbies, the only thing that we could come up with was the opportunity to raise our children. That's a. That's a non renewable resource.
Blaine Neufeld [00:26:58]:
So good.
Virginia Friesen [00:26:59]:
So. Chokes me up.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:00]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:01]:
We were literally just talking about that with Andrew because I was like. I was getting mad because he was like, yeah, I'm so glad I did this before I had kids. And I'M like, that makes me so mad because, like, I don't know, it's just this season is like, you know, so precious and short, but yet I still have dreams and I have like, desires and it feels like a sacrifice.
Blaine Neufeld [00:27:22]:
Oh, it is.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:27:23]:
And so that's good reminder.
Virginia Friesen [00:27:25]:
Well, I wanted to say though, is that I found all sorts of ways to exercise my gifts for those years that we weren't doing formal full time ministry together. And I think that's really important also. I think it's the balance there just making sure that you, you're not gonna look back one day as many, many, many parents have and said, oh my goodness, I was so busy chasing after that that I missed totally because that's the part you can't redo. And I think that's where so many kids have fallen off to the sides.
Paul Friesen [00:27:55]:
But I will say that Virginia was very involved in ministry and pursuing dreams and things that she had while we had our children home. We did it. It was important. I think one of my jobs as A husband, Ephesians 5 says, Help our wives become more radiant. I think I need to say because I have authority in the home, that I don't need to play golf on Saturday. So you can be involved in that, whatever the pursuit is. So I don't think it's a either or like, okay, I'm going to do this and then I'll, you know, we were just talking before the podcast at which I sat down. Understand you do phenomenally well.
Paul Friesen [00:28:36]:
Have people in your home do things. One of the things we loved about our ministry is we tried to incorporate our kids wherever we could so that they loved the ministry, not saw the ministry as something that was horrible that took mom and dad away. But wow, this is so fun. We get to and wherever we could. So, you know, I could tell even by emotion, like here, you're so gifted that am I giving this up?
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:01]:
Yeah.
Paul Friesen [00:29:02]:
And I say no. You think, how can I do this without neglecting the highest value?
Virginia Friesen [00:29:11]:
Yeah.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:29:11]:
Just a good reminder for all the moms out there who feel like it's a sacrificial season. But I wouldn't trade it. Like, I wouldn't trade having to go to work every day and miss out. Like, I'm very blessed. But in your weak moments, you see the, you see your husband, like being so fake outside of the home and you're like, that looks kind of nice, you know, but I'm very grateful.
Paul Friesen [00:29:32]:
That's where the challenge is for the husband that you one praise her for what she's doing, but relieve her wherever you can. Virginia has always loved exercise. And so for a half hour, 45 minutes of running or walking, that was just a given. And so that was really important. It wasn't. Are you gonna walk today? But when can I make it possible for you to walk? So I think we have to be honest that I need this and every husband, every wife need other things that help them come alive.
Virginia Friesen [00:30:06]:
Totally.
Paul Friesen [00:30:06]:
And I think we have to be honest that I really do need an hour away from the kids today, every day.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:12]:
Love them, but a breathing breath.
Paul Friesen [00:30:14]:
Yeah. I need to breathe for sure. Yeah.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:16]:
And we gotta close this off.
Virginia Friesen [00:30:19]:
Oh, no.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:30:19]:
We could talk all day.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:20]:
Kevin's gonna be all stressed. Why you guys talk for 90 minutes? Yeah. Kev, listen up. It was am amazing. But in that and seeing her and being in real time in it, the sharpening that is happening for the season that is to come is very, very clear to me. And I'm sure that there was seasons in that moment where both of us and all of us, there's like, yes, I want to be impactful. Yes, I want to be used by God. And yet what he's doing is strengthening you for the season to come, which you get to see.
Blaine Neufeld [00:30:50]:
You've seen, right? So you get to speak into some, you know, thing that is about to just really pop. And it's cool to see because I'm seeing it in real time.
Paul Friesen [00:30:59]:
I want to go 92 minutes and just hear that, please. One of the reasons this is such a sweet period in our life is we're not raising our grandkids and we're not taking care of our kids because of decisions that they've made. And this doesn't happen across the board. I realize that. But I do think sometimes you think at your age, we're at our peak now, we better grab it. God is preparing you, but raise your kids so that when they're gone, you are free to do something at the long game. You're conditioning now, and you're still having ministry. As I said earlier, I think that's a great thing.
Paul Friesen [00:31:45]:
But don't miss the best years are still ahead.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:48]:
Oh, it's very encouraging.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:49]:
Did I not tell you that we would have a.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:31:51]:
You were right. I never doubted you. I always assumed you were great, but even better.
Virginia Friesen [00:31:57]:
You're so kind.
Paul Friesen [00:31:58]:
Yeah, we love this.
Blaine Neufeld [00:31:59]:
This won't be the last.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:00]:
No, you guys are coming back.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:01]:
You guys, they're. They're a long time. So much knowledge, community that we're around. You guys know very well we're very, very grateful. I'm so thankful that Kevin said, listen, Blaine, you guys have to interview them. And we're very thankful for Kevin and what he's been able to allow us to do. Allow us to do and continue to grow. So thank you.
Virginia Friesen [00:32:18]:
It's been a delight to be with you.
Paul Friesen [00:32:20]:
Really honored to be here. Thank you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:21]:
Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much.
Virginia Friesen [00:32:23]:
Thank you.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:24]:
And everyone else. I don't know how Kevin does this,
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:26]:
but something about, change the odds.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:29]:
Do what they do, and you'll change the odds in your marriage.
Virginia Friesen [00:32:33]:
By God's grace.
Paul Friesen [00:32:34]:
Yes. When all praise is his.
Virginia Friesen [00:32:37]:
Amen.
Blaine Neufeld [00:32:37]:
Thanks so much, guys, and thanks for listening. See you.
Adrienne Neufeld [00:32:41]:
Bye.