Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast where marriage and family were never meant to be a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson. Don't forget, Change the Odds is part of a much larger family called Thrive Media. And part of Thrive Media is the Thrive Podcast Network. And so if you're looking for some inspiration, need a little spiritual sermon, go check out Mark Clark Looking for leadership, the Ray Johnston Podcast. If you just need a laugh, check out Am I Doing this Right? With Morgan and Leslie. Whole family of podcasts, a lot of places to tune into. But we're grateful that you're with us today.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:32]:
And today we have. I don't know if y'all know this, the first married couple on Shane Siage, the podcast right here.
Janelle McGuckin [00:00:38]:
Very special.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:38]:
How about this? Janelle McGuckin. Scott McGuckin. So great to have you today.
Scott McGuckin [00:00:42]:
Thanks, Kevin.
Kevin Thompson [00:00:43]:
So, yeah. So, Janelle, you've written this book, the Gift of With, which is a Thrive Media book, by the way, and coming out. And so we're gonna get in and dive into the story about a cancer diagnosis and how that kind of impacted your faith and how it went from there. But first, we gotta know who y'all are. And so what. What is it about the McGuckin family that's going on? So where did y'all grow up? How did y'all meet? Let's kind of tell that story.
Janelle McGuckin [00:01:09]:
Okay. Well, we have been married 28 years, 29 in June, and we met the middle of our senior year of high school.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:20]:
And where was that? Where did y'all grow up?
Janelle McGuckin [00:01:22]:
I grew up in the Central Valley in Modesto.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:25]:
Okay.
Scott McGuckin [00:01:26]:
And then I finished high school in Modesto, so was growing up in Southern California. Lucky me. I moved from San Diego to Modesto after my first high school.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:34]:
Quite the transition there.
Scott McGuckin [00:01:36]:
The redeeming part was, of course, meeting Janelle. So.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:39]:
Yeah. So you met in high school?
Janelle McGuckin [00:01:41]:
Yeah, we met. We were introduced by an ex boyfriend of mine, actually.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:46]:
Okay. Wow. How about that?
Janelle McGuckin [00:01:48]:
And he took me out to lunch my senior year of high school and said, I met this guy. He's captain of the football team, ASB president. He loves God. He said you guys would be so perfect for each other, you'd probably even get married. And I was like, oh, okay.
Scott McGuckin [00:02:02]:
Sure enough.
Janelle McGuckin [00:02:03]:
So now, how long had it been?
Kevin Thompson [00:02:05]:
I'm more intrigued by this other story. How long had it been since you had dated that guy?
Janelle McGuckin [00:02:10]:
Like, three years.
Scott McGuckin [00:02:11]:
So long enough. Yeah, long enough.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:13]:
Okay.
Janelle McGuckin [00:02:13]:
Yeah. Yeah, I see. But we were just friends after we broke up. And Just kind of. Yeah. Anyway, you know, high school, we played football together.
Scott McGuckin [00:02:19]:
He knew I was a believer, and that was cool.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:22]:
So.
Scott McGuckin [00:02:22]:
Yeah, very cool.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:24]:
So you started dating in high school?
Janelle McGuckin [00:02:25]:
Yeah. So he exchanged our numbers, and when we met, we both had already applied and been accepted to Point Loma Nazarene for college. So we went to college together, dated all four years, and never broke up.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:40]:
How about that?
Janelle McGuckin [00:02:41]:
I know. Got married a month after we graduated.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:43]:
Where did the engagement happen, Scott? How did you ask the question?
Scott McGuckin [00:02:46]:
We had a special place in Coronado island there in San Diego that we would go to. We're poor college students. And so we would go there, get coffee and just absorb, preserve the downtown San Diego skyline, talk about the future, where we wanted to live, what we wanted to do, all those things. And so that was a perfect place to propose. And so there was a beach right beside this little area of Coronado that overlooked the downtown San Diego skyline. And went there and asked Janelle to marry me. We had plans to fly back home the next day and celebrate with family. So fortunately, she said yes.
Scott McGuckin [00:03:23]:
So that was the summer before her senior year of college.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:26]:
Oh, wow.
Janelle McGuckin [00:03:26]:
And I was surprised. Like, after I said yes, I said, have you asked my dad?
Kevin Thompson [00:03:32]:
So have y'all not had conversations about it?
Janelle McGuckin [00:03:34]:
Well, we did. I just didn't know it was gonna happen that night. Cause it was. Because we had always gone there. It was just, like, so special.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:40]:
I was getting nervous. We were about to have to do a little side note of. Hey, this is how not to ask.
Scott McGuckin [00:03:45]:
I cover the bases. I cover the bases.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:47]:
I always talk about how the moment should be a surprise, but the question should never be a surprise.
Janelle McGuckin [00:03:51]:
That's correct.
Scott McGuckin [00:03:52]:
That's corre.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:53]:
So then y'all were married for how long? Until the girls came along?
Janelle McGuckin [00:03:58]:
Well, we were married seven years. We had a little infertility, but we were married seven years before we had Grace. And then Natalie came along two years later.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:11]:
Yeah. So. And Grace and Natalie give an update of. Where are they now Held. Where are they now?
Janelle McGuckin [00:04:16]:
Well, Grace is a junior at Lipscomb University in Nashville studying nursing and is a runner there for cross country and track.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:24]:
And.
Janelle McGuckin [00:04:25]:
And then Natalie is a freshman at Baylor in Waco, and she is playing lacrosse and studying entrepreneurship.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:32]:
So empty nest now.
Scott McGuckin [00:04:34]:
Empty nest. I know.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:35]:
What has that experience been like?
Scott McGuckin [00:04:39]:
Not as quiet as I thought it would be. We've been busy.
Janelle McGuckin [00:04:42]:
I would say the evenings feel spontaneous, like when you're first married. Like, you are busy during the day with work, and the evenings are like, let's go to the gym and maybe just have cheese and crackers for dinner and. Yeah. So the evenings feel more spontaneous.
Kevin Thompson [00:04:58]:
Yeah. So, I mean, you're obviously, you're talking to a guy with two teenagers. Right. And so if you could give any advice to those raising teenagers at this point, what would it be? Now that you've at least transitioned them out of the house, they might be coming back, but you got them to this point. In retrospect, what was it like?
Janelle McGuckin [00:05:17]:
I think, of course you hear this, but it's so true. Keep investing in each other because it does change. And while your time and energies are focused on the kids a lot, especially in the teenage years with sports or other things they're involved in. But I just think keep dating, dating your spouse because you want to be enjoying each other when they leave and not feel that big gap.
Scott McGuckin [00:05:45]:
That's exactly right.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:46]:
Absolutely. So life seems outside looking in. It's never perfect, but it seems pretty good. Right. Husband, wife, love each other, two girls, everything's going great. And then life takes a little bit of a plot twist, and that ultimately ends up in the book the Gift of Myth. But it's a long process from the initial plot twist to where we are sitting today. So how did that initial story begin? How was the initial diagnosis given?
Janelle McGuckin [00:06:14]:
So we lived in folsom the first 12 years of our marriage, and the Lord clearly called us to San Diego and Scott particularly to work at Point Loma in philanthropy. And we gave up our predictable life. We had everything all planned out for our 401ks, and our community and our family was all here. But we really knew God was calling us there. And we quit our jobs. And that next week was the 2008 crash. And it was a huge faith journey that was new for us because we had our life all dialed in, figured out. And so when we moved to San Diego, we started a new journey in our marriage, too, because it had been pretty in sync, I would say, those first 12 years.
Janelle McGuckin [00:07:14]:
We didn't have that first year of, like, freak out or anything. I feel like it came then just because we were working out what trusting in God looked like, even though it was a beautiful place and a familiar place in many ways. But I think what we felt like was following God and being obedient to God and going would come with comfort and ease and what we defined as blessing. So we went down to San Diego and we were there with the girls were two and four when we moved down there. And we started having just a shift in our own faith journeys. With working out who God was and what, what we believed about him. And Scott was working and trying to provide for us and raising money during.
Scott McGuckin [00:08:13]:
The Great Recession was not exactly going into real estate. You know, it's about the same thing jumping into fundraising during that time. So it was, it was more stressful than we anticipated. And of course, you know, little did we know that there was a, you know, cancer diagnosis on its way as well.
Janelle McGuckin [00:08:30]:
So, yeah, I would say fast forward through those three years of living in San Diego and that background of that piece of our story. In March of 2011, I was 36 years old and I went in for just a regular doctor's appointment that women get to go to every year. And she noticed a lump in my neck. And she said, oh, I'm sure it's fine. You know, it's, you know, this, these happen all the time. We'll just watch it. And then that turned into, well, let's go ahead and biopsy it. And then that turned into, we'll just wait and watch and then rebiopsy.
Janelle McGuckin [00:09:13]:
And four months later, they said, let's just take it out. We're just, you know, not 100% sure the biopsy was negative. And they just said, let's just do it out of precaution. So I worked at Scripps Surgery center where I had the surgery, and we told our family, we're like, you know, you don't need to come. This is totally no big deal. It's going to be quick, painless. So I go in for the surgery and I wake up in the recovery room, and I'm a recovery room nurse, and I ask the nurse, is it cancer? And I'm kind of like waking up from anesthesia and, you know, you're trying to make sense of things and you can't totally connect the dots. But she didn't answer me right away.
Janelle McGuckin [00:10:03]:
And I asked her again and she said, yes, it's cancer. And I remember the surgeon coming to talk to me and he had like, tears in his eyes because he was so not expecting this. And we had kind of bonded through the whole process and. And so that began a four year journey with cancer.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:27]:
Yeah, Scott, what was that like? I mean, it's something unfortunately, that many people go through, and it's something that nearly every couple out there can. It's not guaranteed, but you're going to be pretty close. Either you're going to receive the diagnosis or your spouse is.
Scott McGuckin [00:10:42]:
That's right.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:42]:
What was it like from your perspective whenever you first heard those words?
Scott McGuckin [00:10:46]:
Yeah. It was unexpected. The surgeon gave it about a 10% chance. And so I'm thinking we're young, you know, we're healthy. So getting that really shocked me. But I. You know, during the surgery, it was about double the amount of time that it was expected to take. So I kind of figured maybe something happened.
Scott McGuckin [00:11:07]:
Maybe there's something else going on here, you know, so it was a shock. And yet, you know, we also knew that we would have a good support system in place. We had people that loved us and were praying for this. And so, you know, despite the initial shock, I mean, I knew that, you know, we would get and we'd work through this and figure out what the plan was. And, you know, but. But the initial response was surprise.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:33]:
Yeah.
Scott McGuckin [00:11:33]:
Wow.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:34]:
Yeah. So, Janelle, I mean, the initial diagnosis comes, a plan's put in place. It seems like everything kind of goes as it's supposed to go. You've knocked it out. This experience is over.
Janelle McGuckin [00:11:46]:
Right, Exactly.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:47]:
Let's move on with life.
Janelle McGuckin [00:11:49]:
Right.
Kevin Thompson [00:11:49]:
And yet it didn't quite go that way. What happened after that?
Janelle McGuckin [00:11:53]:
Yeah. So they say that this is the good cancer, that, you know, 5% of the time it comes back, and, you know, it's basically a sprint to re. You know, recover from this type of cancer. So I just was super dedicated in the process and everything that they were asking me to do. And then we, three months later, we move here up to Granite Bay. And so it was a whirlwind. You go through the surgery, the treatment, moving and transition. And then I started a new job at Kaiser, and then it was.
Janelle McGuckin [00:12:32]:
They were monitoring me every three months with labs and scans. And it was at the one year mark that they said, it's come back, and now it's in your lymph nodes. So we need to do a neck dissection surgery, because my thyroid surgery was just, you know, the front of my neck. And then the next surgery was at Kaiser, where I work as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:58]:
Wow. Yeah. So as a nurse, is your knowledge in those situations useful, or is it harmful or is it both?
Janelle McGuckin [00:13:08]:
It's definitely both because you know that there's young, healthy people that get the dreaded diagnosis that don't survive or it's worse than they thought. But you also know what doctors to ask for, you know, what to expect in many ways. And so I would say it's a blessing and a curse because, you know, a lot.
Kevin Thompson [00:13:36]:
Yeah. So obviously, you're here, you look healthy, all those kind of things. So take us from the idea of kind of the second Diagnosis to. To full remission and where you are today.
Janelle McGuckin [00:13:48]:
Okay, so what turned. What was supposed to be a sprint kind of turned into a marathon, because then after my second surgery, they did a neck dissection and took out 29 lymph nodes. And this was the point where we were more honest with our girls and used the cancer word with them. And so that was part of their own journey that they were going through 6 and 8 at the time. And yet we were really. We really were sensing the Lord with us as far as not being paralyzed by fear, having, like, a strong, supportive community and family, and just being able to see, like, gifts that the Lord was bringing. I remember after my second surgery, and then you have to go have this radioactive treatment, and you have to go into isolation for a week. And this is before COVID so it was all kind of new.
Janelle McGuckin [00:14:52]:
But so Ray offered me his house because he's like, carol and I aren't going to be there. You can go be radioactive there. And I'm like, no, no. But John and Heather Stewart, never had met them. They have a casita. They opened up their house for me to go stay in radioact for a week by myself. And both in San Diego and at the Stewart's casita, I had this, like. I call it my shack like, experience where I had this overwhelming presence of God that filled me up.
Janelle McGuckin [00:15:34]:
Like, I felt like he sang over me with music. I felt like his presence just calmed me. And I know people were praying for me, but I also know he was just coming. He was just coming to love me and be with me in it. And it was such a powerful experience that I now can tell you 100% that I don't wish I never had cancer. Because going through that, it changes you. And I feel like it seals you in this way with the Lord that walking through things that are blissful and easy don't do. And so it was a year, another year of, like, tests and waiting and tests and waiting.
Janelle McGuckin [00:16:24]:
And then another two years go by and they found three more spots in my neck. And they said, well, now that it just keeps coming back, we're just going to have to keep doing surgery every few years and treat it that way. And so you just kind of have to learn this acceptance of, like, this is my life, and this must be something that the Lord's going to use in some way, whether I survive it or don't survive it. But so going through the waiting and tests and then still doing a normal life and life with kids and going to trader Joe's and soccer practices and working and all of that, you still just go through it all and it still kind of stays in the back of your mind. Even though they're saying, okay, it hasn't changed, we're just going to wait and watch. And like medicine does, you know, when they don't always know what the best thing to do. So after the third time, the three spots that they found came back. They, you know, kept saying, they haven't changed, they haven't changed.
Janelle McGuckin [00:17:34]:
But when it gets to a certain size, then we're going to do surgery. So another year goes by and so this is at the four year mark, I go in for my scan and they only find one of the three. And it's like so tiny they can barely see it. And it was the first time in four years that my labs said non detectable. And it was just this like overwhelming sense of like, am I healed? I think I am. And yet as a nurse, you go, oh, there could be lab error. And the doctor was even like, no, you're not in remission. You know, like they're just kind of like downplay your excitement.
Scott McGuckin [00:18:23]:
In fact, they did double check, right? They sent your labs to multiple locations.
Janelle McGuckin [00:18:28]:
Like USC has a special lab that they sent it to. But Scott and I were in that appointment together when my doctor was like, I'm not really seeing anything and just like kept scanning and ultrasounding and I was like, oh my goodness, is it really happening?
Scott McGuckin [00:18:45]:
I think the Lord healed you. Yeah.
Janelle McGuckin [00:18:47]:
It's beautiful. I know. And so I know that's not everyone's story, not the end of everyone's story, and I'm not convinced it's the end of mine. But for whatever reason, the Lord has gifted me more time and I believe it is him that healed me. But that's really not the gift. The gift of with is his presence with me and with us and with our family and our girls and anyone who invites him into the struggles. That's really the gift, you know.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:26]:
So at some point in this. When was it in this that you really began to think of? This is a story that isn't just for me and isn't even just for me to share on occasion with individuals, but instead, this is a story that I'm willing to actually let out there for whoever needs it. At what point did that even cross your mind?
Janelle McGuckin [00:19:46]:
Yeah, actually it was before I got the you're healed news. I remember sitting in our backyard and I remember just spending some time with the Lord and journaling and I had this, like, really strong kind of burning in my bones kind of sense from the Lord. And even, like, a whisper that was share our story. And I was like, oh, okay, I'll do that in conversations and in emails. And then it was just like, once the Lord laid that on my heart, I felt like it was so many conversations, almost like within a week or two of confirmation, that I actually needed to write it down. And one of the first voices was Denise Belden, and she and I were sitting at Jack's, and she said, you have a voice. You need to share it, and you need to write. And I had been sending out, like, email updates to family and friends, and those kept getting shared and, you know, beyond who I was sending it to.
Janelle McGuckin [00:20:58]:
And multiple people were saying, you need to write this down. You need to write this down, because this is so God, and people need to hear this.
Scott McGuckin [00:21:06]:
It was pretty cool because as Janelle mentioned, the emails that she was sending out to just a small group of people initially, friends, family members, those were getting passed on. We had all kinds of people from all over, really, the country who were reaching out, saying, hey, would you add me to your distribution list? And Janelle's thinking, I don't really even have a distribution list. Right. This is a very small, intimate group of people. But that began to grow, and that was some really cool confirmation that there was a hunger out there for what Janelle was sharing. And what she was sharing was much less to do about the cancer journey, more about her relationship with God, how God was there with her in this whole story. And it was beautiful how people were resonating to it.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:46]:
So, I mean, pastorally, it's interesting to me because I, you know, involved in a lot of situations in life, a lot of scenarios of life. Not everybody experiences hardship, and that draws them closer to God. So some. It's the exact opposite story. Why is it that you think that your specific diagnosis actually took you to a place that you can sit here now and say, if the only way for me to have this is to have gone through that, I would go through that all over again. What is it that allowed that to take place in your life?
Janelle McGuckin [00:22:19]:
I don't think it's one specific thing. I think it's a combination of different things. But, I mean, I would say it was just God's grace that was giving me the desire to lean into Him. But we did invite him in to this whole journey. Like, every moment, every day, we would just invite him in. Just, Lord, we invite you here. We don't know what to do. I also think there was a practice of gratitude that really helped shift the have to go through this to get to go through it.
Janelle McGuckin [00:23:04]:
When you look back and you look at how God has provided, how God has been there, all of a sudden it gives you eyes to see the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. Sometimes when you just see the first thing and then you start to see more and more and then it overwhelms you with like, wow, you love me so much. And it's funny because I think, you know, I pray and we prayed like God, use me and ministry or use me how you want to use me. And oftentimes we think it's how we want to be used. Well, I'll mentor high school girls or I'll serve at serve day or whatever. But actually the second time I felt like he was choosing this for ministry and I wanted to be faithful to that. And so I think it's also I've a combination of being mentored by some amazing people who point me to Jesus who are like, you know, encouraging me to lean into Jesus in these times. So I think it's a variety of things that are so important and it's not being isolated, it's staying in community and it's bringing the hardship and the ugly to Jesus, not just the buttoned up pieces.
Janelle McGuckin [00:24:29]:
Like my journal pages are full of tears and fear and anxiety and I'm laying it before him like a psalm. And so I feel like it's a combination of different things that help you see him with you in the valley of the shadow of death.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:49]:
Yeah. So the result now is the gift of with right comes out on November 15th. And so by the time this airs, it's going to be out. I don't even have a real copy yet. I still have the not for resale copy here. And what's interesting to me is I got this specifically in part for this recording today, but you can see it's already well worn and that's because Jenny grabbed it and read it. So I kept on telling her, no, keep this pristine for what's going on. But she couldn't put it down.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:21]:
Not only because of her love for you guys, but then just the story itself. And so let's walk through just kind of what the book covers. And I mean it begins with this idea of you're asking people to walk with you. What does that even mean? So if somebody picks this up, they're going to walk with you. What does that mean to you?
Janelle McGuckin [00:25:38]:
Well, one of Scott and I's best marriage tips is to go for walks together with your spouse. And we have done that since we first got married, before we had kids, and even when they were babies and it's raining and cold, we still go on walks almost daily together. And so the idea of walking and talking with someone, sharing story. And Jesus did that obviously all throughout his ministry. But I. I pictured it being like a conversation. So a lot of the book is kind of conversation style where it's like we're going on a walk and sharing story. And I feel like I'm so moved through story when other people's story.
Janelle McGuckin [00:26:32]:
And I feel like it. It's different than being taught something because I feel like it makes me ask a question of like, oh, can God really speak like that? And maybe I should ask. And I have a story in there about just Scott going to a retreat a few years before we moved to San Diego and God giving him a new name. And I was always afraid to ask God because I was like, I don't even know what it would be. I don't know if I'm going to hear Him. This is kind of foreign. And I found this special ocean bench in San Diego that became kind of a sanctuary for me. And I was on my bench when we were in San Diego before the cancer diagnosis, actually about a year before I finally had the courage to ask the Lord, do you have a new name for me? And it came, like within seconds of me asking, to my heart and mind, like a whisper.
Janelle McGuckin [00:27:35]:
And I was like, wait, wait, wait, did I really hear that? That's really. And I usually just brought my journal to the bench. But that day I had brought this Jan Johnson book that I was reading about solitude and silence. And I opened it up to the chapter that I was going to read next because of my bookmark. And the first verse of that chapter was Zephaniah 3:17. And the name he gave me that day is Delight. And that word was in that verse. And I, like, just knew it was the Lord whispering that name to me.
Janelle McGuckin [00:28:12]:
And I didn't really know what it all meant, but I received it as the gift. And I feel like he renamed me that day. And so I think just when I'm inviting someone on this journey, it's letting them ask the question, God, do you have a new name for me? Do you speak this way? Are you really with me? And just seeing how it's happened or real in someone else's story that they could go and find it for themselves and it might not be on an ocean bench or a bench at all. It might be their car or some other special place that they're just still before the Lord. But when he speaks to you and you know it's him and it will always be in his word as well and reflect his character, you feel so loved. And it's like you get to experience heaven on this side of it, that you don't have to wait for eternity to, like, taste what it's going to be like. And you get to taste it now. And so just walking and talking with someone about saying, hey, like, it's real and it's for you, too, if you haven't experienced it yet.
Kevin Thompson [00:29:32]:
Oh, wow. So, Zephaniah 317. Strange side note here. The first marriage event I ever did, that was my text, Zephaniah 3:17. I was 18 years old. I had never been on a date, and yet this church asked me to come do their Valentine's banquet. I had no idea what to say, obviously, but I actually look back on that and say that might have been the most truthful marriage thing I ever did. Because I wasn't defending anything that I had.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:00]:
The advice I gave was actually, I think, good in retrospect. And eventually I would marry a girl from that church.
Janelle McGuckin [00:30:06]:
Wow.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:07]:
Zephaniah.
Scott McGuckin [00:30:09]:
I love it.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:10]:
So I wonder what it would look like, Janelle, if somebody took your book. They don't have to have a cancer diagnosis. It's not that we all have suffering. We all have things in our lives, Questions we have about God, this need for a relationship. But I wonder if they carved out a space, a bench, wherever it is, and just created a habit of, hey, I'm gonna go and Janelle and I are gonna sit on this bench and talk to God. If that's not maybe the best way to go about reading this and almost paralleling your journey. I mean, how did that bench come to be? How did you pick that spot? And why did it suddenly become. Now, obviously the scenery came in handy.
Scott McGuckin [00:30:50]:
It's hard to beat the ocean, right? That's right.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:54]:
But I mean, for people that this is a foreign concept for. And yet you hear the importance of it. And not that a person has to have a specific place like this, but there is a usefulness in this kind of rhythmic, disciplined living. What would be your encouragement to that person? And maybe they can use the gift of with. If not, they can use something else. But how do they develop that pattern that has become so meaningful to you?
Janelle McGuckin [00:31:19]:
Well, I found the bench, like I said when we moved to San Diego. We were on, like, this chasm between us and on our own journeys with God and kind of working out, I use the word lightly deconstructing kind of our, you know, theology around what blessing was and obedience to God and what that looked like. So I was at the church, we went to at a Bible study. We were studying Esther. And I didn't really go to a lot of women's events and Bible studies because I was a nurse, and I had my own kind of, like, thing with being busy. But the Esther message that day was about how she was not the hinge to changing the king's heart. She was just being obedient. And I was so moved with conviction about being the hinge for him and trying to cheerlead him out of whatever he was going through.
Janelle McGuckin [00:32:24]:
And I felt so overwhelmed, you know, like one of those, like, messages where you. I was crying, and I couldn't, like, pull myself together. And at the end, the gal who was presenting said, and if anyone wants to come up and have some prayer, we're going to be up in the front. And I remember just sitting there going, God, what do you want me to do? Like, I don't know if I should go pray. I don't know what to do. And it was one of the first times I heard his whisper. And he said, come be with me. So I was like, okay.
Janelle McGuckin [00:33:00]:
So I bolted out. And I knew I had to pick up Natalie at preschool in Point Loma. And so I drove to the Sunset Cliffs, which is beautiful, And I pull over and I see this bench. And so I walk out to the bench, and I sit there, and I just have my journal. I just have, like, raw confessions. I'm just crying, and the Lord is comforting me. And I experienced him in a new way sitting on that bench. And it was just his invitation to say, come be with me.
Janelle McGuckin [00:33:36]:
And I think that's his invitation for all of us is just come be with him. And we don't have to have, like, anything figured out or a formula or whatever. And I kind of grew up with legalistic checkboxes. And so I didn't want anything to do with legalism and checkboxes. And so I just encourage people, just go be with him. Just sit. And sometimes I would just sit in quiet. And of course it's beautiful, so having a beautiful spot helps.
Janelle McGuckin [00:34:07]:
But that became a place where I knew I could meet him and through that, like, time with him. And it wasn't like I went every day. Probably at first went weekly, and then a Few weeks in between and. But I felt like he was then stretching me, that I could experience him beyond sitting on the bench, that it could be in the whispered moments of the day when I'm turning to him or I'm on a walk, or I see something in his creation that just reminds me of his goodness. So I would just encourage people that you just start by. Just go be with Jesus.
Kevin Thompson [00:34:50]:
So, Scott, what was. Not that it has to be a big lesson by any means, but what are the things that you have learned through this journey, supporting now Janelle through what she's going through, while at the same time grieving your own experience? What has it been like to be that?
Scott McGuckin [00:35:08]:
Yeah, well, it's. You know, I think that the beauty. The beauty is when you do go through hard times and you're stretched, you know, you. Like you said before, you can either pull away from God or you can lean into God. And the beauty of leaning into God is that you realize that he's right there with you, and so, you know, he's there with you. The things that we've learned about, you know, leaning into God during challenging times is that he is the blessing. You know, the richness that comes from this life with God is encountering Him. We talk about it in terms of a formation friendship with Jesus, you know, so actually spending time with Him.
Scott McGuckin [00:35:46]:
And what we've learned is that spending time with him results in his nature becoming our nature more and more. And of course, that's spending time at His Word, spending time in prayer, and spending time just listening and being with Him. And so I think our experience as we went through this, it was beautiful because we both leaned into this and we said, you know what? Here's this part of our relationship with God that we haven't really probably maximized or delved into as much as we could have historically. And so the opportunity that I think we have, and we're still learning and growing and learning, what is this sort of abiding relationship with Christ look like? And we're learning things all the time. But I think that's been really the cool part of this is that we've both been leaning into this together. And even through that time period, I think we were learning to, hey, how do you abide in Christ? What does that look like? And what does it look like to sit and listen and just spend time with Him? What does that mean? What do you do? I found a few mentors along the way, as Janelle mentioned, and that was good advice for us to figure out, hey, how do we do this? How do we do this in a healthy way? But, you know, I think because we were on this journey together, it gave us a really sweet connection point, you know, with what? What are you learning about, you know, your walk with God? What am I learning about my walk with God? How are you experiencing Christ? And we would share these things. Hey, I feel like I heard this from the Lord today or this really stuck out today. And that drew us together during the season.
Scott McGuckin [00:37:29]:
That's been beautiful.
Kevin Thompson [00:37:30]:
So, Janelle, a lot of people don't understand it's one thing to have a story, but to write, then there's a vulnerability that's there because your stories can be out there. What was the hardest part of this book to write?
Janelle McGuckin [00:37:45]:
Well, I would say that when I first started writing, I thought it was just going to be for my girls. And then as I kept writing, I felt like one of my mentors said, what if God wants it to be for a bigger audience? And I. And I prayed about it. And funny enough, the very next day I read the story about the Samaritan woman who went back to her town and told her testimony. And the whole town believed and experienced Jesus on their own, not just because of their testimony. And it was funny because I didn't know that that was actually probably a deeper desire under my heart. But when I read that, I felt like that's what I want. I want this to be like, for whoever is seeking, whoever wants to read it.
Janelle McGuckin [00:38:37]:
And yet it is vulnerable. Journal pages, it is not a made up story. It's like honest and it's vulnerable. And when I got to chapter 10, I thought, I'm just kind of not sure I'm going to finish. I don't know if I can keep going on and doing this and who's going to read it. And I don't want it to cause hurt to anyone who would read it. And I thought maybe I just needed to be more disciplined. And I actually had to go through a year of counseling at that time to unearth that.
Janelle McGuckin [00:39:15]:
I was dragging my feet about being vulnerable and putting it out there for whatever the Lord wanted and had to really work through that and surrender that. And to really, for me, it was, I want it to be a gift for whoever wants to receive it. And so getting there and working through that and being aware that criticism will come and just saying, I'm just the water girl. I'm bringing the water. And if you want to take a drink, awesome, I would love it. And so I feel like it stalled Me out for about a year and worked through it and kept going through. And then this guy kept cheering me on to go, keep writing, you're going to do it, you're going to do it. And he's been an amazing cheerleader for me as well as our small group and, and my family, and family, you choose, we call them, to just keep writing, keep writing, that this story needs to go out there.
Janelle McGuckin [00:40:19]:
And so, yeah, anyway, I feel like you and Stan Jantz and just like so many people along the way who have just said, keep writing, this story needs to go. And so I'm surrendered to whatever the Lord has planned for it and want to be a good steward and open to whatever that is.
Kevin Thompson [00:40:41]:
So, Scott, what's one thing the reader needs to understand about Janelle that nobody else knows but you know about who she is? Her character and her nature. And what's one thing that you would say about her that we wouldn't know otherwise?
Scott McGuckin [00:40:53]:
Wow. Well, the story is much more, you know, it starts with the cancer diagnosis, but it's so much broader than that. And so it sort of starts with this journey of, you know, of the cancer diagnosis, working through that. What the Lord speaks to Janelle, how he's working through her. But it is a beautiful story of how to walk with God. And so, you know, what I think maybe some people might think about is, hey, this is a story around how you deal through, you know, health related issues or things like that. It's actually a bigger story around walking with God. And I think the story that Janelle tells in the book will help people learn how to walk with God and how to have a richer, deeper, fuller relationship with the Lord.
Scott McGuckin [00:41:44]:
So, you know, perhaps what's maybe not as overt is that, you know, it's just this story around the richness of walking with God, abiding in Christ, what that looks like. But Janelle's raw and open about these things, these struggles, deals a little bit with family, deals a little bit with the things that you encounter in any sort of relationship and marriage and family. And it's a beautiful story of leaning into God to help him to get his help through those things.
Kevin Thompson [00:42:15]:
So Janelle, I mean, a place that obviously this is for anybody who wants a closer walk with God. But obviously an easy entry point is going to be a diagnosis has just come. Whether it's your spouse or it's you, or it's a child or a parent, whatever, your life has just taken a turn that you did not expect. I think a lot of people are going to be handed this book at that moment. They might listen to this podcast at that moment. So let's close by you just talking to somebody who just received that, who just received that news and they've made the phone calls they're supposed to make. All those things have happened. Somebody has shared this podcast with them, They've ordered the book, and they're in their quiet moment or place or wherever they are.
Kevin Thompson [00:43:00]:
If you could just briefly say a couple things to them, how would you encourage them in this moment, as they're walking forward into a future, they really don't know what it's going to hold?
Janelle McGuckin [00:43:13]:
I would want to say I'm sorry. I know this is so hard. And it's not a do these 10 things and you'll get through it. It's that invite Jesus into that space of darkness that you feel and to invite other people in to receive from other people. Because I feel like the Lord brings people, people you may even least expect, who want to minister to you and to love you. And I would encourage you to just ask the Lord, ask him all your questions. And I would also say turn on some praise music. I feel like music was a huge tool that has helped me along the way on my journey.
Janelle McGuckin [00:44:16]:
And I would, I would just remind you that God is with you. You know, at Christmas we talk about Emmanuel, God is with us. And we don't really. I feel like that feels kind of out there, you know, like a next to you kind of experience. But when you really believe and experience that God is with you in that room, wherever you are, or on that hospital bed or wherever you are alone with him, you know, he is the with God and he is going to show up for you. I believe he will show up for you. And just keep asking and inviting him in.
Kevin Thompson [00:45:00]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. We hope people do that. So the gift of with is available. Probably the easiest place to get it is on Amazon. Janelle McGuckin. Janelle, how can people connect with you? Social media, websites, things like that. What's the best way to get in contact with you?
Janelle McGuckin [00:45:14]:
There is a website, thegiftofwith.com and also Instagram and Facebook. The Gift of With or my personal Janelle McGuckin. Instagram will have information on it and you can message me or there's also on the website, there's an email that you can sign up for newsletters and send me emails as well.
Kevin Thompson [00:45:34]:
Yeah. So one thing we want to do around here is we want to change the odds of marriage. And one thing I could tell you, Pastor, is that I can guarantee a day is going to come in your life in which news is going to be received and your life's going to take a turn that you never expected. And here's the thing. You can either begin to prepare right now and create the relationship you want so that the person who's holding your hand when the diagnosis comes is somebody that you trust and you love and you respect and you have a partner to go forward with, or you can leave it a chance and see when that diagnosis comes. When that day comes, is that a hand you trust or is that a hand that you distrust in that moment? And life is radically better when your relationship is solid. So my encouragement to you pastorally is to don't leave this to chance. Instead, begin to build the relationship you want so that whenever that day comes, you can face the hard thing together instead of almost having a double whammy of facing what that's like.
Kevin Thompson [00:46:28]:
Scott and Janelle, thanks so much for your time.
Scott McGuckin [00:46:29]:
Kevin, thanks so much.
Kevin Thompson [00:46:30]:
We'll see you next time.