Kevin Thompson [00:00:00]:
Hey, welcome back to Change the Odds, the podcast where marriage and family were never meant to be a game of chance. My name is Kevin Thompson, back with Dr. Barbara Wilson. Barbara, how are you?
Barbara Wilson [00:00:07]:
Hi. I'm doing great. How are you doing?
Kevin Thompson [00:00:08]:
I'm doing very well. Well, today we're going to talk about your Bible study, Free, a study for women finding freedom and healing from your past. And this is a book a lot about intimacy on those kind of issues. So what was at the very heart of you writing this to begin with?
Barbara Wilson [00:00:25]:
Yeah, so we started actually leading that study back in 2004 here at Bayside. Rachel Johnson, the women's pastor, is the one who first asked me, hey, do you want to start leading women, you know, through some healing from their sexual past? And that came out of my own story. I know we shared, we talked about that on one of the podcasts. But after going through my own healing for my. For my past, I started writing my first book, the Invisible Bond, how to break free from your sexual past. And then I started leading women. I started writing my own curriculum. I started using something as a template, but adding in concepts from the Invisible Bond about the brain and sex and bonding, and then walking a more methodical, step by step process of breaking those bonds.
Barbara Wilson [00:01:15]:
What was interesting was when I went through my graduate program for clinical psychology, a lot of the concepts in the study are actually from trauma focused cognitive behavioral therapy. So that was kind of like this amazing God thing. Like, wow, I was already writing this and look at. They've already been studying this and proven that this process is very effective in healing from trauma. So it doesn't just deal with sexual trauma in your past, but also your own choices. So whether it's, you know, being promiscuous, past, having any kind of violation or trauma as a child, and then also deals with current struggles like pornography, masturbation, and addictions like that.
Kevin Thompson [00:01:58]:
Yeah. So I often say that the biggest influence on your present is your unresolved past. Right. And so how does that impact women in their most important relationships when there is an unresolved past that is there? And my guess is I don't know about women. I know men. Our initial response is, it's the past. Who cares? Let's just get onto the present. Just total avoidance and denial.
Kevin Thompson [00:02:23]:
Do women tend to approach it that way? And how do we invite people into recognizing that the best way to change tomorrow is by working today on what happened yesterday?
Barbara Wilson [00:02:34]:
Right. Yeah. So, absolutely. And that was really what kind of led to the work is understanding that even with Our own choices, God forgives that. But there's a healing process now for women, as opposed to men. We release more oxytocin, which is really more associated with the emotional component of intimacy. And so when we associate sexual intimacy with a hurt or a wound now sex is associated with something unpleasant, something dangerous, something scary, or so we then will tend to shut down. And even oxytocin during traumatic experiences, then associates that traumatic experience with something that you need to avoid.
Barbara Wilson [00:03:19]:
And so what women can do is then they either. And there's so many different variables, but often in a marriage, then they will dissociate during sexual intimacy, or they'll avoid it. And because it feels like something where they're being used or they feel uncomfortable, unpleasant, it tends to bring up memories or flashbacks of things that happened in the past.
Kevin Thompson [00:03:50]:
How does a husband navigate that whenever that's happening? Because if 1. What do we do to contribute to that? But then I assume in other scenarios, the husband isn't necessarily doing anything to contribute to that. And yet he's going to start feeling something in probably not a positive light because of that disconnection that's happening.
Barbara Wilson [00:04:12]:
Yeah, because it creates a lot of insecurities for both. Because often the husband feels like, well, what am I doing wrong? Don't you desire me? What's happened to our intimacy? Because sometimes at the beginning, it's not necessarily a problem, but then it becomes a problem. And so, yeah, the husbands are left feeling, hey, you're rejecting me, or you're not really present during sex. What's happening? And so then you know that that creates the. It impedes that emotional connection that can happen during sexual intimacy, which is where men really feel kind of connected. And so then they start to create this distance and ends up usually having a lot of fighting or conversations about how come you don't like sex, how come you don't want to, you know, participate, you know, what's happening. So the husband, without having any knowledge, assumes that it's all about him.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:05]:
Yeah. So what's the difference between a couple who's having difficulty sexually and it really is a break in their relationship? So let's say, I mean, a scenario I see often, young kids, he's not being thoughtful in any way, not playing his role in partnership at all. She's exhausted, has no energy whatsoever for intimacy. So even though he's not playing his role as partner, he still wants to play his role as lover. She now obviously and fairly does not want to do that. So that's a problem with a Relationship versus having the same fights, the same discussions, the same frustrations. And it's not a fault of the relationship. It's actually some unresolved trauma from the past that maybe.
Kevin Thompson [00:05:50]:
Maybe he doesn't even know about. Maybe neither one are really understanding how do they navigate the difference between those two.
Barbara Wilson [00:05:57]:
Yeah, and that's a hard one even for me to even, like, you know, 20 years into my marriage, trying to figure out why. Why is this such a struggle? Until I went through my own healing and realizing, you know, that first experience, which was a little bit more like a date rape, was really creating a sense of, you know, fear in me and humiliation that I projected onto my husband, which wasn't. Wasn't part. His part, but you can still project that, and that's what you feel. So, you know, I know we talked about this in one of our podcasts, but how your body can store memory even if you're. You're not. May not be thinking about the past, but if a situation reminds your body or your amygdala of that same feeling, your body can respond in the same way. And that can be confusing for people until they start to understand, okay, this might be.
Barbara Wilson [00:06:51]:
You know, it's interesting because I talk to people. This probably has something to do with abuse you had as a child. Oh, really? Like, oh, they never. They don't connect the dots. They don't understand, oh, I don't like sex. Or this feels uncomfortable. Just especially it doesn't feel safe. And that's the number one thing that women will say.
Barbara Wilson [00:07:09]:
And again, yeah, it's very different than, you know, you've had disruption in a relationship. Maybe there's even infidelity or there's pornography that can create a disruption in sexual intimacy. But when it comes to the past, it's. It's more. It's more covert. In fact, that's why my first book, we called it the Invisible Bond, because it's really this unknown that people aren't talking about because they don't understand why is this a struggle for me.
Kevin Thompson [00:07:36]:
Yeah. So what would be some examples? You talk about lack of safety. What are some other examples of. All right, here are the symptoms that your past is actually impacting your present in a negative way.
Barbara Wilson [00:07:48]:
Yeah, it's a lot about how you feel during that, you know, during sexual intimacy that any anxiety or fear that comes up. You know, I have women that have physical responses where they. They'll go into a panic if, you know, if something that their husband is doing is reminding them of some assault that they had in the past. A lot of times with, like, promiscuity or just, like, your own choices, there's a lot of shame, and a lot of that comes up, which then makes you want to hide. Shame makes us want to hide. And so then we don't want to, you know. You know, ex, you know, kind of be vulnerable with our spouse. And so.
Barbara Wilson [00:08:31]:
So there's a lot of avoidance, there's a lot of hiding. But then also there's dissociation for women that have been through that where they just literally shut down. So they become just, you know, an. Just a body lying in bed as opposed to somebody that's actually participating and feeling that intimacy and connection.
Kevin Thompson [00:08:53]:
Yeah. Which clearly. I mean, the sexual act is designed for both of us to show up fully. And so anytime we're not able to do that, because I would think it'd be easy for some just to begin to write the story. Well, that's just how sex is. It's all they know. In the same way that maybe a man with avoidant attachment just shows up physically and isn't emotionally present in any way whatsoever. And both of those scenarios now are not the ideal of what God created.
Kevin Thompson [00:09:23]:
And we're actually robbing ourselves, robbing each other of the fullness of the expression of what's actually going on.
Barbara Wilson [00:09:31]:
Yeah, because I was thinking, even, like, with childhood abuse, often there's, like, molestation. And so when, you know, even when a woman starts to become aroused, it can trigger her body to remember abuse in the past that she may not have even thought about before. And then there's this, like, avoidance, like, no, you can't touch me. And so it's very interesting. Everyone is a little bit different, how they can respond. I've also had women who have physical pain because of violent, you know, abuse in their past. And. But it might be completely buried in their memory.
Barbara Wilson [00:10:09]:
They don't necessarily. Might not even be thinking about it. It's fascinating. Often with childhood abuse that may not get triggered until someone gets married or they have children, and the children are kind of at the similar age that they were abused. Because the brain is amazing in how it can protect us during trauma. And then often it comes out when we're in a place where we can feel a little bit safer and then that memory can come out to deal with it.
Kevin Thompson [00:10:36]:
So is it. I mean, is it fair to say that the brain is protecting us in those moments, but whenever it begins to express itself, even negatively, that that is a sign that we're actually in a place that we can begin to deal with this even though it feels like we can't.
Barbara Wilson [00:10:51]:
Yeah, absolutely. I always say, like, if God is bringing something up, it's like, because he, you know, he knows more about what's going on with us, obviously, than we do. Like, I mean, you can have abuse from before. You even have memories, like, before you're even verbal, and. But your body can still remember that. And so then you have no idea why you're responding a certain way. Where sex becomes, you know, something absolutely, like, scary, you avoid it. You don't want.
Barbara Wilson [00:11:16]:
You can't understand how your body's responding. It doesn't seem normal. And so. But God knows that. And if he's bringing up any kind of, you know, emotions that are negative during sex, it. I think, you know, we, of course, we avoid that. We just go, oh, I'm just going to avoid having sex. But I would again tune into that, like, what.
Barbara Wilson [00:11:35]:
What am I actually feeling right now? Is it fear? Anxiety? Am I feeling shame? Am I feeling disgust? Because a lot of times with, especially with sexual past, where there's a lot of promiscuity there, it's more a feeling of shame. Like this deep sense of shame. You feel disgust about yourself, and so then you don't, and you feel unworthy, so then you just want to hide from your spouse. And that can happen with childhood abuse, too. But that's why I often say, whether it's abuse or trauma or your own choices, often the results of that or the consequences of that are the same on how we deal with that as humans, emotionally and physically.
Kevin Thompson [00:12:21]:
So as you take women through this study, what's the general process to go from, hey, I'm feeling some negative consequences in my relationship, may not even know what it is, to the end game? I mean, the book is titled Free of where you're experiencing a different life. What's the process that people have to walk through?
Barbara Wilson [00:12:40]:
Yeah, so just a little background, because when I started that, it was after talking to a lot of women that were struggling with sexual intimacy. So my second book, Kiss Me Again, Restoring lost intimacy in Marriage, actually goes into more steps about that. But it really was about understanding that God wanted this amazing gift for us in marriage. And if you really love your spouse and you but you're really struggling with sexual intimacy, let's find out why that is. Sometimes it could just be all the negative messages that you received growing up. I've had people that maybe didn't even have a sexual past go through the study to kind of help, you know, Get a more godly view of sex, because pornography and all the way the world markets it can make us feel like sex is something bad even. You know, unfortunately, some churches have contributed to this concept that sex is bad. And so sometimes you just have people who've never had a sexual past, but they have this very skewed view of sex.
Barbara Wilson [00:13:41]:
But especially if you've had any kind of abuse or trauma, or you have your own choices in your past, you do bring that into your relationship, not only, you know, chemically with that bond that you've created, but also the emotions and how you associate that. And so the study kind of starts out with, you know, we walk through this whole process of healing, and it's really based on four kind of pillars, I call them. And one is we're going to look at the wounds that we've created because of our sexual past. Like, where do we hurt and what kind of emotions come up because of that. And then we look at the lies that we believe or that we've ingrained because of our past, especially with abuse or trauma, we feel like unworthy or that we feel like we're to blame. I've had women in, you know, who were drugged and, you know, violated at parties when they're young, and they still blame themselves. Like, I should have, you know, I shouldn't have gone there. I shouldn't have been so stupid.
Barbara Wilson [00:14:49]:
And I'm going, well, you were 16. How did you know? Like, you don't have any concept that someone would do that to you, right? And the whole drugging situation is I'm very passionate about educating my young women on that because it's become quite an epidemic. And they have really no memory, but their body has memory, so it's very confusing. And then they bring that into the relationship where they actually feel like they're being suffocated during sex, but has nothing to do with her husband. It has to do with the violation they had while they were drugged. And so we look at the wounds, the lies, and then we grieve the losses. So we have women that come in. So let's say there's often a progression in that.
Barbara Wilson [00:15:34]:
So let's say you were exposed to sex early on as a child, right. Whether it's like fooling around with a cousin or you were, you know, violated by an adult, you were exposed to pornography early. That might lead to an early sexual experiences as a teenager, which then makes you a little bit riskier. So then you may end up with some sort of assault or violation as a Teenager, Often you'll get pregnant, so there could be then an abortion. And then often after trauma like that, people even become more promiscuous. Especially, you know, I'm speaking mainly about women. And so you have this progression. So we will kind of look at all of those things and look at how God can heal all of those different areas.
Barbara Wilson [00:16:23]:
And so that's grieving losses, whether it's what happened to you as a child or what's happening in your current marriage or an abortion, those kind of things. And then the last one is breaking the bonds that we've created outside of marriage that impact our ability to have that secure bond in our marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:16:46]:
So whenever you look at the. What are. I mean, can you summarize the lies? You talked about a couple of them there. Summarize the lies that many women believe. My guess is they're nuanced in different ways, but they probably come back to just a core few lies of unworthiness.
Barbara Wilson [00:17:05]:
Yeah, I'm to blame. Yeah, I'm not worthy of this person. I'm not good enough. I'm vulnerable. I'm not safe. So, you know, for even as a Christian, you know, a lot of the lies just about God, like, he doesn't care where was God? God's not going to want to use me again. The church isn't going to accept me. My friends won't accept me.
Barbara Wilson [00:17:38]:
If they knew. If they really knew, I wouldn't be able to, you know, serve at church. I wouldn't have any friends. Like so many, which. And it's interesting about the lies because it does keep us in secrecy and it keeps us isolated. So that's what the enemy wants to do. So shame makes us hide so that we are only listening to his voice, you know, that we're not worthy. I can remember it's a little personal story.
Barbara Wilson [00:18:05]:
Back in 2004, I think I was invited to be on the board here at Bayside. And we were at a board retreat with pastors and the board members. And I remember on the one morning I was having my quiet time and I felt so much like shame. Like, what am I doing here? Like, if these people knew who in my past. Right. Like, I just. I just wanted to put the covers over my head and not go to any meetings. Like, I just felt like I feel that way regularly.
Kevin Thompson [00:18:36]:
But it's not shame.
Barbara Wilson [00:18:38]:
You just want to go back to bed. But it was so intense. It was like very spirit. A very spiritual kind of attack of shame. And, you know, God just led me to some verses. How you know, he's removed that shame. And. But it.
Barbara Wilson [00:18:54]:
It was so intense. And I just hear. I mean, it's just one of the biggest things that I, you know, hear from women that I'm not good enough. I can't measure up. I'm not worth the work. I'm, you know, I'm. No one's going to, you know, care about me enough to stay with me, to. I'm not worth the work of, you know, even, like, having a healthy marriage.
Kevin Thompson [00:19:20]:
So if you were talking to a woman, if a woman was in a session with you and was in that moment going through an attack of extreme shame, what is it that. How do you help her walk through that? So what's in our toolbox? That whenever somebody feels that. All right, here's the. Here's the two or three things you can immediately do.
Barbara Wilson [00:19:40]:
Yeah, so usually what I do then is I start just asking them questions, you know, because you don't want to immediately go, oh, you shouldn't feel any shame, Right? You just want to ask them questions. Well, tell me more about that shame. Like, where does that. What do you have shame about? Where does that come from? And then I start, you know, I just start to gently lead them, like, well, is that. Like, does that. Does that make sense? You have shame about this violation that happened when you went to this party. Like, do you think, like, how much shame do you deserve for that? Right? Like, who. So you kind of gently lead them to.
Barbara Wilson [00:20:14]:
Who really owns that shame? Because often I'll say to people, you know, people want to put shame on us, right? Or perpetrators. Like, this happens a lot. Like, oh, you really wanted that. Like, even adults with children, like, yeah, you. You really want. So they try to push the shame back on you. And I'll say, you know, you don't need to accept that shame. I want you to, like.
Barbara Wilson [00:20:38]:
Like, don't let that shame in. Like, why don't we just move that shame aside and let's talk about really what. What's hurting inside? What do you really feel shame about? And often, you know, we're able to get around to what's really going on inside. It's a lot of deep work. Right? And, you know, I have women that say, this is, like, the worst. This is the hardest thing I've ever done. It feels like heart surgery to go through, because we don't want to think about these things because. And we don't want to talk about them.
Barbara Wilson [00:21:10]:
And yet the healing that comes is so freeing, which is why I call it free. Because It's. It's like being. It's like this verse in Malachi that talks about, like, calves released from the stall that are jumping and leaping. And it's. It really feels like that because women come in weighed down and very heavy with so many. So much shame and guilt and remorse and, you know, so stuck in the past. And yet the healing that happens that God sets them free, it's like you can see it on their faces.
Barbara Wilson [00:21:40]:
You see it in their body language. I get letters from husbands, you know, thank you. My wife is. You know, I have my wife back, or I have this new person in my house. It's amazing. It's very exciting.
Kevin Thompson [00:21:55]:
I love the illustration of heart surgery, because that would be terrifying. Nobody wants to face that, but you can't avoid it.
Barbara Wilson [00:22:02]:
It's there.
Kevin Thompson [00:22:03]:
If you need heart surgery, it's literally death or heart surgery. And in many of these issues, it really is a question of either you do the hard work that leads to life, or you do the. What feels like the easy way, but ultimately it leads to death. And it's just the illustration that we have.
Barbara Wilson [00:22:23]:
Well, you know, John Townsend and Henry Cloud, they have this amazing book called How People Grow. Have you read that? But they talk about good pain and bad pain, and they talk about. The good pain is the pain that we're willing to go through for healing. The bad pain is what keeps us stuck in. Because when we're in pain, we're gonna cope some way. Right. And how do we cope? Substances. Scrolling through our phone, avoiding our.
Barbara Wilson [00:22:45]:
Avoiding the dishes or whatever it is, or, you know, just avoiding each other and intimacy. Right. It always comes out. And that's the bad pain that ends up causing more consequences to your relationship. You know, like, you know, for me, it affected my relationship with all of. With my husband, with God. I became this, you know, hovering parent because I didn't want my kids to make mistakes. And so I didn't have.
Barbara Wilson [00:23:11]:
I couldn't trust anyone. And it kind of seeps into every area of your life, but you don't realize it. That's the bad pain that just gets worse. The good pain is. And what's awesome is you can go through, like, a lifetime of wound and then God in his economy, in just even a few months of spending intensive time going through some really hard pain, he can set you free from all of that. Like his. I mean, his economy and how he accelerates. That is phenomenal to me.
Kevin Thompson [00:23:44]:
Yeah, I always use the illustration of. Because if you walk in the wrong direction for a while to get back to a good place. You have to at least walk back that distance. But the amazing thing to me is when you walk in disobedience, you go a distance, but as soon as you obey, it's almost like at the airport where you step on the moving walkways. That God propels you much faster than I think we realize. And I think that causes a lot of people to kind of be hindered from doing the work because they're like, man, this is so long. And they think it's going to take all this time. And literally in a 12 week study, they can be at a radically different place 12 weeks from now than where they are today.
Kevin Thompson [00:24:27]:
And the only thing standing between them and that is the courage to be willing to go through the process.
Barbara Wilson [00:24:33]:
And it does take courage. And I am, I greatly admire anyone that's willing to have the courage to begin this journey because it is hard, but the impact is exponentially. It's miraculous how that will not only impact your life, but ripple to everyone around you. I mean, in seeing women healing from their past and being able to help their children, seeing their children make good choices because they took the, they had the courage to get healing for themselves or healing their marriages. I mean, I, there's just so many stories. I can't even tell you how God has used it in miraculous ways. And when I went back to school, I kind of stopped leading it. You know, we were up to several groups.
Barbara Wilson [00:25:19]:
I had led, I've trained 25 leaders over the years. So we had multiple groups running. There's been groups running all over the US but then when I went back to school, I kind of had to take a step back from that. But I really feel God leading me back into. We got a, we got to do this because I have people emailing me from all over the U.S. hey, are you doing that study again? And that's why I decided to start it again and kind of do it in an online format so that people that are in areas that don't have someone that can lead, that can have access to the study.
Kevin Thompson [00:25:53]:
Yeah, so that's what we have going on. That in the beginning of 2025, there's an online study that's going to take place. So how do people sign up and what would that look like?
Barbara Wilson [00:26:03]:
Yeah, so they can go to my, they can go to my website, which is drbwilson.com or to barbarawilson.org and I will, they can contact me through there. I will send them out information. I have a brochure that I will put up on the website that they can see. But on my Dr. B. Wilson website there is like a link for that that they can reach out and ask about the study. Some of the information on there is not up to date because when I originally did it, I did it every other week, but I'm going to do it every week for 13 weeks. There is a small charge of $25 a session that I do like you to pay upfront because we need to have some sort of financial investment to stay engaged and to, and to.
Barbara Wilson [00:26:58]:
Because just like therapy at the beginning, it might feel a little worse before it gets better. And that's when often if people are going to drop out, they'll drop out, but if they just hang on, then they're going to begin to see the victory and the healing.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:13]:
Let's confront that idea of, all right, somebody's going to take the study. They get into it. Session two and three, the pain is worse. They write the story. This isn't working. You know the story. No, this is exactly how it's supposed to go. How can we tell ourselves the truth on that? Is it just from the get go to recognize, hey, just commit to this? Let's face it, 13 weeks at the end of it, it's not going to do harm.
Kevin Thompson [00:27:42]:
It can do tremendous good. And if at any point this gets harder, that's actually a sign that it's working in the same way that when your muscles get sore, you're actually working them out, whereas if they're not getting sore, you're not. How would you speak to that?
Barbara Wilson [00:27:57]:
Well, and that's one of the lies, right? As soon as it gets hard, it's like, oh, you know, I shouldn't have started this. But it's just so true. In any kind of work that we do, when we actually start digging deep, it does become painful. And I think it's also a bit of a spiritual journey. So one of the things is we get the women to start praying the armor on every day. Because when the enemy does not want us to be free from this, he loves us stuck. He loves us ruining our lives and our marriages. He loves us being isolated and keeping us in secret and in lies.
Barbara Wilson [00:28:28]:
He loves that. And God wants to set us free. And so the enemy might, you know, when those feelings come, that's when you know you'll be tempted to quit. You will. And. But I often say to women, especially when it starts to get like really hard, I'm going, you're just on the edge. That means when it's like at its hardest point, that means that God has this amazing break for breakthrough for you. That's how God works, right? That.
Barbara Wilson [00:28:56]:
In that. In that moment when it's hardest, if you take that step over that line, that's when God has some amazing breakthrough, breakthrough. And I see that often with the women when they just hang in there. And what I always tell women, they're always afraid when it ends. Like, oh, is this. I'm feeling so great right now. Is this, you know, and I'm going, this is just the beginning of your healing. Because then I'll hear from women.
Barbara Wilson [00:29:17]:
Even a year later. God's continued to work in my life and heal me. I mean, I've had women who, you know, stuck in their house, not doing anything for and then get healing and become leaders and ministry leaders and career leaders, get married. I had a woman who was, you know, married and then was in a lesbian relationship and go through healing and then remarried her husband. I mean, like, just so many miracle stories of God setting women free. We also have a men's version. I don't obviously lead the men's. And then I also have a young women's version that I've actually led through with the Thrive girls here at Bayside.
Barbara Wilson [00:29:55]:
But for this one, it's for, you know, women, married, single, any age.
Kevin Thompson [00:30:01]:
So on the group aspect of it, because I can hear where some would hear that and go, oh, no, no, no, I don't even want to talk to myself about this, the idea of talking to a therapist about this. But there is a power in group, and so help us understand why many times a group study like this is actually more effective than just even if they could do one on one with you, it's possible that the group would be more powerful than even one on one with you.
Barbara Wilson [00:30:31]:
And I really believe that. Not that I want to make things less for me, but as a psychologist, but there's something powerful about the group. And even in the New Testament, James, it talks about, confess your sins to each other for healing. And there is something about the group aspect that you don't feel alone because that's one of the lies. You're the only one that's done this. You're the only one that's experienced this. Or so you don't believe that anyone else could go through what you've been through or done what you've done. And that's the lie.
Barbara Wilson [00:31:08]:
When you start hearing other women share their stories. And I always say, okay, we're not going to compare or compete with Our stories, because what we're feeling, the experience, the emotional experience is all the same. And that's where they connect. Oh, I feel that way. You know, often the first week, I'll have women just share, what are your goals for the study? Like, we're not going to start off with your story or anything. What are your goals? So I'll have women come in and go, yeah, I signed up. I was excited. And then I got here and I'm going, no, this is not for me.
Barbara Wilson [00:31:39]:
It's not for me. And they want to leave. But then they start hearing the women's goals and they're going, yeah, that's what I want, too. I want to have more intimacy with my husband. I want to, you know, feel more confident in myself. I, I, I just want to feel different. I feel a lot of depression and anxiety, and I would like to, to feel better. And so even after that first week of hearing the other women's goals, they start to connect.
Barbara Wilson [00:32:05]:
Women always bond and connect in this group. They never want it to end. But I have to. Sorry, you have to end. But yeah, so it's, it's just a common, Everyone feels that way. Just so you know. That's very common to feel that way. But we make you feel as comfortable as you can.
Barbara Wilson [00:32:21]:
We make it completely confidential and discreet and will break you up into smaller groups so you're not having to share with, like, a large group.
Kevin Thompson [00:32:29]:
So how do husbands properly support this? So husband's listening right now, and he's like, our intimacy isn't where I want it to be. Some of these things could be the issue at play. Does he bring this up? Does he, how does he support that? And then how can he in no way manipulate his wife or anything like that, but in a loving, supporting way, say, hey, I heard about this. Here's the opportunity. What do you think?
Barbara Wilson [00:32:53]:
Well, I think just presenting it like that, you know, I heard about this. They've probably had a lot of conversations about sex. She may not be open to it, but providing her the information, the resources to look at that, I also have on my barbara wilson.org website a resource that has a note to husbands, actually, and how to help support their wives during this journey of healing.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:16]:
Yeah. So the class starts January 6th through March 30th online. And so anybody anywhere can take it. It's the book Free by Barbara Wilson. So drbwilson.com drbwilson.com is the best way to get ahold of you. And then the book is also available on Amazon if you're interested. And if you're interested in bringing Barbara to your church or have a small group study for your church, you can contact her through her website as well. Barbara, thanks.
Barbara Wilson [00:33:45]:
Right. I also have a training manual for leaders. It's digital, so if you're at a church and you want to be able to lead it, you just go on my website and download the training manual and gives you everything, all the handouts and everything that you need to start the study.
Kevin Thompson [00:33:59]:
Sounds great. Well, thanks so much for your work. Thanks for being here with us today. And let's continue to change the odds of marriage and family.